BLADE SR TAIL WAG FIX!!!

[TowPilot]

Originally Posted by lazor 22

Everyone shutup. This is a hijacking! Just sit there and don't say a word. I have a bomb in this thread and I will set it off. Your thread is being hijacked.

^ What clone are you going to get? I'm gonna get a CopterX 250se, but I'm not sure if the ESC will work. I'm pretty sure the motor will, because it has a higher Kv rating then the Align one.

Bomb Squad arrives:

This is a good topic for... oh, that's right... a new thread in the 250 forum!

Someone looking for the info this new topic learns, won't be finding it buried 40 posts into a thread about the SR tail

Everyone back to the original topic quick!

Something to keep in mind for helis and troubleshooting. While one cause is usually responsible for the same symptom, some symptoms are so generalized (tail wag) that in this case there can be one or more than one fix to be applied to gain a solution.

This is like saying there is only one med or one cause for a kid to be coughing. It could be chronic bronchitis, emphysema, asthma, a cold, an allergy, helis are like that. There are symptoms which are very general in nature so don't over focus on one cause as the only possible fix. An aspirin doesn't make all that bad stuff go away.

Just has been mentioned, gyro tapes, depending on the SR vibes, some need more or less tape and different types of tape isolate different vibe problems. Of course getting the least amount of vibes is best but no heli is ever vibe free.

Adjusting gryo gain from the gyro or the Tx using the yellow gain wire. I don't know why one is more successful than the other, maybe using a good Tx gives a more granular adjustment than is possible turning a tiny potentiometer screw. Which brings up that the screwdriver I think, should be non-ferous (non-magnetic). Those tiny screwdrivers included with gyros that use a potentiometer on the gyro include a non-ferous tool for this adjustment.

The tail motors are expected to be a pain point but after all, this is a machine intended to get you from ground zero or from a coax into a belt or torque tube tail drive, later in your flying. Tolerating a motor drive for a season or so or even long term as a keeper for training family and friends. And the longer you fly, the more proficient at troubleshooting you become. What stymied you for a week in the beginning you will solve in hours later in your flying. The setups you do will get better and in less time.
A motor drive tail only gets so good due to the limitation of how quickly a motor can change speeds.
One other problem is the range of quality of motors or any part, coming off those production lines. Yes we all want a new motor to be perfect and run the same length of time the last one did. Won't happen. Everything is made to be just good enough. There are the motors which are DOA and motors which seem to never quit. There's a video on the web of motors (not these) being assembled in China at a factory and since this isn't a component in a pace maker, the price point is low and motors are turned out in a range of quality, they aren't all the same At least Horizon is good about swapping out bad parts.

China does build mission critical stuff too for their space programs, etc., but we aren't paying that tab. We pay $10 of which many people get a slice of and how much remains of that money to actually make the motor? So how reliable is a carton of these going to be? We just know that when we get a bad one, we ask for another one to try again. Horizon is good about that.

Any way a great thread on the tail. Do the best you can but don't over stress on about it as it will be good but won't be Avant, Vibe, Outrage or Trex ready As long as it works well enough to be controllable, a good flying machine within the parameters of what the SR is, it's good to go.

Oh and here is an amazing place to start a 250 thread. https://www.helifreak.com/forumdisplay.php?f=131 There is a ton of info there. Everyone interested in 250's is there. There are even some threads on the very topic of what makes up a good set of components. Can still start your own as your build will be a different collection of components.

Those interested in the wide variety of 250s, please start reading the 250 forum too.
The SR forum is for the SR please.
This just happens to be where most everyone started out flying but as you branch out, so do the forums
Otherwise, 5 years from now, everyone will be talking about the 700 build in here too

The Mystical 250 Forum

Hope this was helpful on both topics.

For discussing a variety of choices like should I go 250 or 550 for training, that is a candidate for the Main Forum - Helicopter Talk.

Cheers and see you all over the forums in the future as pilots branch out into the various next models of their choosing!

And there is the Group also, for heli or non-heli discussions.
https://www.helifreak.com/groups/sr-forum-water-cooler-off-topics.html

Mike

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[lazor 22]

tl;dr lol

[ElectricPower]

I have put 3 strips of foam tape under the gyro on mine and moved it as far toward the edge of the shelf away from the servo as I can get it. It has drastically reduced the amount of wag I had. I fly in IU with my knob set somewhere between the 1:00 and 1:30 position but the rare times when I am on normal mode I set my knob to the 12:00 position. These seem to be the settings that work best for mine.

[heliflyer99]

Take a look on the previous page for my post of getting rid of the tail wag on the SR with gel and foam servo tape. Anyway, it worked great for mine!

[bigjocky]

Anyone tried "bluetack"????

[bigjocky]

Originally Posted by lazor 22

The T-Rex has a higher head speed, so if what your saying is true, it should be better then the align one.

Anyone trie bluetak

[Bladecpnitro]

I picked up a new Blade SR today and my tail is wagging a bit. I have been turning down the gyro a little every time I shut it down to try and correct it and I think its getting better but not fixed completely yet. Mine leans to the right a bit to hover in one place too, kinda crazy. It worlds better than my Blade CP though, my CP has gotten to where it will jump up and down a couple of feet for no good reason.

I got 8 minutes and 46 seconds out of my last flight. Its been windy here all day so I have to fly in the house. I put 3 flights on it today. My new 1000 mah Lipo didn't do well with my blade CP but works perfectly in the SR. Turns out stock battery is a 1000mah Lipo in the SR, so now I have 2 Lipo's for the SR. I love it.

The Blade SR manual mentions the right hand knob and suggests that it will be unused on the Blade SR but has certain 5 channel functions that won't be needed.

I'm wondering if you flip the switch on the gyro to digital if it totally bypasses the screw adjustment??? If it didn't there would be no way to adjust it past 50% from the transmitter if I'm not mistaken, if 50% is where you have the screw set.


I believe tail wag comes from the Gyro over correcting or letting the tail slip away before it catches it. If you were doing it strictly with your hands with no gyro you would find a sweet spot where you could hold the tail steady. Now were asking a computer to take a reading ever so many milliseconds and correct the tail accordingly. The gyro has to keep taking readings and then send the proper message to the tail and winds up a little late or either over corrects IMHO.


The Blade SR rocks. I'm keeping the CP to try new 3d stuff on though. I'll use it as a guinea pig.

[Bladecpnitro]

Here is another video of how to set up that gyro function on the 5th channel. Seems to be pretty effective.

[Bladecpnitro]

As an added note, I went ahead and hooked my yellow wire up to my reciever and left the gyro screw alone although someone suggested else where that you have to set the gyro screw to zero according to the Blade 400 manual.

I found that the adjustments I make on the 5th channel stock TX are definitely noticeable. Right past 50% is where my tail stops wagging but still seems to surge a little.


I like mine set a notch below 50% after adjusting the rudder trim again to fly strait. No tail wagging. As mentioned in the video the tail will weathervane in the wind when set below 50% so I haven't dealt with that yet but its worth it not to have that tail wag for now.

[DKS_ONE]

Correct, 50% = Gyro off. 51% and higher = increasing gain in HH mode, 49% and lower = increasing gain in Rate mode.

[LawnDartHeli]

So if I want to use the gyro gain in my DX6i, I'll plug in the yellow lead on the Rx...but once I do this does it bypass the the pot on the gyro itself and all adjustments are via Tx? Basically what Im asking is, do I need to set the pot on the gyro at 12 o'clock and adjust with the Tx from there? Also, do I need to switch anything else on the gyro?

I know the (DX6i)Flap switch changes between 1 & 2 gyro rate settings, and Id like to find a good HH rate for 1 and a good RM setting for 2 ( I like the idea of better forward flight in RM, because the tail wag in FF is what throws me off..I dont fly in wind anyways)

And I assume I need to test and make sure the mix on the bottom of the 2-1 is as close as possible before making gyro adjustments?

Any help with this would be appreciated, as this wag problem is what aided my last crash.

[Jumna]

Lawndart, the gyro pot setting won't matter after you plug in the yellow wire, just the Tx gain you set. I'm not sure what you mean about the mix, I'd just leave it alone unless you see a problem with yaw when the heli is flown up at high speed. For me, a little wag is better than lowering the gain too much and having a tail blowout. Too much wag will wear out the tail motor tho.

[LawnDartHeli]

Gotcha..thanks! Im gonna check the mix on my 2-n-1, as I have made adjustments trying to reduce the wag. Im gonna check it and make sure it doesnt yaw right or left when I pitch up. It usually holds well with the trim set at center, but the wag goes from mild (1-2" swing) to crazy (4-6"swing) and usually during mid turn. Has anyone here flown in rate mode while doing circuits? If so does it transition in turns smoother? I do not fly this heli in wind, so weather vane is a non issue.

Waiting on parts to re-assemble, gonna flip the tail motor, glue the swash, and try a little faster head speed to see if this thing will react quicker.

[LawnDartHeli]

Got It all back together, reset the entire head ( all servo arms, linkages are 90 deg @ mid-stick w/ level swash), pitch is range is -6 to +13 w/ 0deg at mid stick...wow, it actually has head speed now before it gets light.. Flipped the tail and plugged the remote gain wire in, found that 60% is the no-wag, good hold sweet spot on mine. Hovered an entire pack non-stop and the tail motor barely got warm to the touch...before it would all but burn you.
Had a bit of wind so I didnt try any FF, but it is certainly more stable than its ever been (thanks to the pitch change and increased head speed) and the tail is a night and day difference!

Thanks for all the good info! I'll post a pic later in the SR pic thread.

[DustOffUH1]

My Blade Huey SR should be arriving tomorrow. We'll see how bad that is, and I'll use the tips from all of your posts to try & calm it down. What I don't understand is they say factory tested and set up. So why are they not correcting this at the factory???

Joe

[N4HHA]

Originally Posted by DustOffUH1

What I don't understand is they say factory tested and set up. So why are they not correcting this at the factory???

Joe

They are adjusted and test flown palms facing up on the controls while traveling 89 MPH on a bumpy rutted road in a yellow van with bad shocks. Duplicate their environment and she will be RTF out of the box.

[Imzzaudae]

My MSR Wagged it's tail
My 120 SR wagged its tail
My MCPX wagged it's tail

I took every one of them apart.
Although I was advised not to do so, I packed the main shaft bearings with white lithium grease, wiped the outer race with a clean dry cloth and re installed the bearings.
Then used a drop of 3-1 oil on the tail rotor motor bushing.

Not one of them has wagged it's tail since.
I'm certain that a little white lithium grease will reduce the drag created by dry bearings flopping around inside the bearing races and your tail will stop flopping around.

Maybe the gyro on the SR is not the best, but I'm sure dry main shaft bearings is 90%
of the problem as the drag would be changing continually and the gyro is compensating.
causing the tail to wag.

No I don"t like powdered graphite lubrication!
Take it or leave it. It works for me.

[hierlevelz]

So the gel tape worked well? I asked because my previous employer has a division called advanced anti vibration mounts and the general manager was kind enough to give me a sample of some gel mounts for testing. She says it's being used in military applications for drones as well as photography. Anyone interested in trying it out lmk.

Originally Posted by heliflyer99

Adjusting the gyro does not entirely remove the tail wag from the Blade SR. Isolating the gyro completely eliminates it, but you must use the right materials.
Here's how I did it -
1. Remove the gyro from the platform, carefully cleaning all the goo and tape off of both the gyro and the platform.
2. Cut a small piece of thin foam servo mounting tape the size of the bottom of the gyro.
3. Stick the mounting tape onto the platform, leaving the top piece of plastic on the tape, until later.
4. Buy some Pro Servo Tape, #8044 by Parma PSE, made in the USA, at your LHS! This stuff is a gel type double backed, sticky as H--- gel tape, about 0.060" thick, that completely absorbs all vibration and my SR does not tail wag at all, just like on the Phoenix simulator. I had a friend fly it that had not ever even seen an SR before, and very experienced at heli flying. He did not mention anything negative about the SR, except that the controls were a little mushy around the center.... the way it is supposed to be, in Normal mode.
I had converted to the Ch 5 control of the gyro, also, putting the knob about 12:30 on the knob, and haven't touched it yet. Before, even just starting it up, it jerked immediately.