Swash and tail glitching on the bench??

[PHANTMXR6]

I've just finished wiring my Xxtreme and went to bench test it.

On spoolup the swash glitches and the tail glitches.
I have no idea why or where to start looking.

Setup is stock motor and speedie, 25 hand written on one of the caps.
BLS255HV on cyclic and 256HV on the tail.
Blueline VBar that came with the kit.
CC BEC PRO set at 8V.
Revo 7S 5000 packs.

Any ideas??
Here's a quick vid I took.

VBar glitch Logo Xxtreme. (0 min 47 sec)

[DannyvG]

check the vbar log to begin with.

Does the canopy still fit with the vbar like that?

[PHANTMXR6]

Log can be found at archeli.
http://www.archeli.com.au/forums/sho...49#post1549249

Dang, just tried to fit the canopy and it doesn't.

Oh well, back to the relocation drawing board.

[DannyvG]

There seems to be some massive electronical problems going on. Either static (havent heard of that before being a problem in the xxtreme) or perhaps motor pulses entering the vbar or upsetting the signals going

perhaps trying another bec or a straight 2S lipo will change things.
or try unplugging the governor sensor wire from the vbar. check al wiring for damage.
run the motor in the other direction or remove the pinion from the maingear so you know its either caused by the belt static or the motor. Or also remove the motor completely and have it run outside of the heli.
check for short between yge and the heli.

[rcmarty]

Possible the CC bec isn't enough , myself i don't use and CC stuff on expensive heli's.

CC has had too many fires for me. nick named castle cremations .. lol

Another thing to check is the motor screws. If there a bit long they can short out the windings.
I had one nick a winding once , so now i always sand the top of the cap screw to a mushroom roundness on top. As the bolts come from the factory they have an inverted O on the top. If this O isn't smooth it's like a knife.

+2 on trying a seperate rx lipo pack. Will help point in right direction

Martin

[rcmarty]

Had a look at the log , there's alot going on there.

I'd have a closer look at your sats and sat wire connections. Back when i ran spectrum i used to hotglue (low temp craft gun type) the connectors at both ends. Reduced the shadows alot on my 700n

you also got alot of govenor missed errors.

The 800 (with yge version '25' esc ) was my first shot at vbar govenor. (jive's before)
I found i had lots of gov errors like yours and the rpm on the headspeed wasn't correct.

I bought a 700 with the updated (ver 27 yge esc) and things went so much smoother and headspeed were accurate.

So sadly i'm going to suggest you get the esc updated to ver 27. Free update but you have to send to germany yourself. Archeli has a write up about it or search out my posts here about how to do it right.

Would be nice if vbar box would fit there but it won't , the 700 is smaller again. Search out my name for some pics of what i did for location stuff , some good ideas in the thread from various members.

Martin

[PHANTMXR6]

Thanks Martin.

I did try a separate lipo to supply the BEC and the motor started doing what it did to Jays heli ages ago with rpm rise and fall.
I stopped then and walked away. lol

I have used CC BEC PRO on 2 other helis without fail so far so I doubt very much it will be that.

I don't look forward to having to send the speedie to YGE as it shouldn't be required. I know it will sort out the soft start and a few other things, but I shouldn't have to send it anywhere. It's brand new dammit! lol

It almost makes me wish I hadn't forked out so much cash on this damn heli now as I could have a flawless fully upgraded 14 or 16S Goblin 770 for the same money.

Never the less, I will persevere for a while and see if I can work out what is going on.

Thanks for all the suggestions.

Damo

[rcmarty]

Needs a little figuring out , it's a great heli and i love mine. Quite amazing how fast you can get somthing this big to flip and roll like. My agility is up to 105 i recall.

The goblin combo's are running the yge esc's also , so getting an older ver 25 software is still possible there also.

I had the false starting and kick on startup problem with my ver 25 yge esc , once updated to ver 27 , it spools up smooth as can be now , rpm also corrected , and gov errors are gone.

Sadly , i'm still going to vote for a ver 27 update.



I had another look at the log and it looks like you have a slew of sensor checksum errors and no connection to sensor errors.
This may point to a faulty sensor on the vbar. Do you have another sensor to test by chance ? (black blue or new silver). While very rare i have heard of bad sensors.


I assume this is a fresh build with new servo's etc. Are the same servo's glitching ? I know you can have a bad servo (yes very rare also) that still works but causes havoc throughout.

I've heard great things and bad things about CC products . There are several people that swear by them and several that swear at them. Glad to hear you have had great luck with them , but being a fresh build , you may have gotten one that slipped thru quality control. Just saying , mabye diagnostics should be done with lipo pack untill you get a clean spoolup , then add more to the mix.

Motor screws good ?
If you pull the motor out and un bolt it , then look into motor holes to see if the windings that pass over the mounting holes have any skid marks on them.
This is still my #1 thought.

Martin

[rcmarty]

I did try a separate lipo to supply the BEC and the motor started doing what it did to Jays heli ages ago with rpm rise and fall.
I stopped then and walked away. lol

Motor had surging issues ?

Did the swash still jump and glitch ?

Martin

[PHANTMXR6]

Originally Posted by rcmarty

I assume this is a fresh build with new servo's etc. Are the same servo's glitching ? I know you can have a bad servo (yes very rare also) that still works but causes havoc throughout.

Motor screws good ?
If you pull the motor out and un bolt it , then look into motor holes to see if the windings that pass over the mounting holes have any skid marks on them.
This is still my #1 thought.

Martin

Yes all brand new components.
Motor is good. The mounting screws don't protrude at all past the plate in the motor.
I didn't need to remove the motor from the mount to be able to see that. The 5035 has bucket loads of room so you can see right in there.

[PHANTMXR6]

Originally Posted by rcmarty

Motor had surging issues ?

Did the swash still jump and glitch ?

Martin

Yes, but this only happened when I had a 2S Lipo supplying the BEC.

Yep, swash and tail still the same.

[rcmarty]

Powered by a lipo rx pack shouldn't cause any issues.

Do you have some pieces to use from another machine to test ?

esc
vbar sensor
bec

Martin

[PHANTMXR6]

Originally Posted by rcmarty

Powered by a lipo rx pack shouldn't cause any issues.

Do you have some pieces to use from another machine to test ?

esc
vbar sensor
bec

Martin

BEC and a Silverline sensor, but no speedie.

I'll go through it all later this week and see what I can come up with.

[Jays200]

Originally Posted by PHANTMXR6

I did try a separate lipo to supply the BEC and the motor started doing what it did to Jays heli ages ago with rpm rise and fall.

G'day Damo,

That comment took me back, in a bad kind of way. My 800 is flying awesome ATM. I've just updated the Kosmik to V4 and the new capacity limit feature worked a treat 3800 set for a 5000 pack and when it kicked in and I landed I had 30% left in my Revo packs. The Pyro 800 only gets to about 40 degrees with my telemetry thermocouple jammed into the windings.

None of the above helps you of course but I do have a spare Scorpion 5035 380kV Mikado version motor I can send you for "process of elimination" purposes. Brian from PerthRC swapped out my original motor for this one. It hasn't flown and I only used it for bench testing. It didn't solve my problem but you're welcome to have ago with it to see if it makes a difference.

PM me or call tomorrow (if you still have my number) since I'll be back on shift on Wednesday and won't be able to get to the post office until next week.

Good luck.

[PHANTMXR6]

Thanks for the offer Jays, and for the call.

I'll keep it in mind if I get to that stage.

[PHANTMXR6]

Well looks like the sensor is dodgy.

I tried a Silverline sensor and the swash and tail gremlins appear to be gone.

I will finish up tidying the wiring and maybe aim for a maiden this weekend.


Maybe.

[rcmarty]

Glad to hear you got it figured.

This is the 3rd blue sensor i've heard of going bad .. making me nervious as i have the blue also. I'm at 80 flights now so i guess i'm past the point of getting a bad sensor. Still makes you think.

Paranoa aside .. lol

The 800 is awesome machine. Still my favorite one. I thought i was going to like the 700 more as it was so much quicker on cyclic. But after a few outings of tuning i still like the 800 best. I got it fast now (agility up to 106) and it just has a great presesnce in the air and i beileve the size/weight makes it track so nice. Makes me look good

Martin

[PHANTMXR6]

Thanks Martin.

I'll reserve judgement for after the maiden. lol

Knowing my luck something else will go wrong before then.