Converting 450 Pro DFC to scale

[crashjack]

I'm planning to convert my 450 Pro DFC to scale. The things I need to address are the head and the main gear, pinion, and main shaft.

Regarding the head, I've read that the DFC head on the DFC shaft has too low of profile for the various 450 sized fuses. Therefore, I'll have to convert to the normal FBL head, and I'm a little unsure what parts I need to do that. I know I need the 118 mm shaft. I guess I'll also need the Plus or Pro CCPM swash. After that, I'm a little unsure of links and swash followers and am also not sure if I need to replace the head, grips, dampeners, etc. The problem is, the Align Parts Finder is oriented around DFC and flybared heads. I've never built or flown a flybared heli so I'm a little unsure what might pertain to the flybared head vs. the non-DFC flybarless head (I know what goes with the DFC head).

The main gear/pinion looks a little more straight forward as I'll need the 150T straight gear and a 12T pinion. I'm just not sure whether or not the main gear case and OWB are the same but might be able to figure that out by matching part numbers.

Basically, I'm converting a DFC head/shaft/gears to a flybarless head/shaft/gears. Any help would be appreciated.

[Luthier]

I ordered this fbl head, swash, and shaft combo a few days ago. Not Align, but hopefully well made. It was ~$30.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/161340849705

Regards
Michael

[crashjack]

Been doing more research, and I think I'll get the Tarot head and swash. It is more money, but I know it is compatible, and I can get parts. I think I'll stick with the Align shaft, main gear, and pinion, as I like sticking with Align when the dollars make sense... the price for that stuff is about the same.

[junior10]

I put a trex 450 pro dfc in a md500d fuselage from rc aerodyne without changing the head and main shaft with no problem. It flies great.

[crashjack]

Good to know. I contacted RC Aerodyne, and they said not to use the DFC head due to potential boom/frame strikes. My guess is, folks will put on a scale body and then won't alter head speed, cyclic travel, rates, and so forth and then complain when they have a mid-air crash. Therefore, RC Aerodyne plays it safe and specs the most clearance possible.

[junior10]

i had to take a little material out of the dog house so the servo arms were free but thats the only modification that i had to do. i did lower my head speed a little, i ran 80% flat throttle.

[crashjack]

Actually, the DFC with lower profile looks a lot closer to scale. What pitch and cyclic throws are you using? Also just curious, what FBL do you use?

I'm toying with keeping the DFC head and main shaft but would feel pretty stupid if I had a boom/fuse strike. Keeping the DFC head/shaft would make things easier and would even look better. Of course, I'm only using two blades which isn't scale, but in flight the DFC head would still look more realistic.

[Emo_G]

I have a 4 blade head which I want to use on a scale build, but for the life of me I couldn't work out how to stop the heli from spinning when it was spooled up. I was thinking of bigger tail blades to counter the torque but that's as far as I got with it. I do have some other scale builds but I have left the stock 2 blade heads on those. I have used a couple of Blade 450x but most of the scale builds have been trex 450 Pro's as the seem to lend themselves better to scale in my opinion.
I would like to to try and sort out the issues with the 4 blade head but time is the problem at the moment.

[CrashNburn420]

What esc are you using Emo? Some esc will let you adjust the soft start to make it spool up even slower, I know you can with castle escs

[junior10]

I ran +12* and -6* I didn't want to even go to flip it. I looked great and had a mean stance to it

[Emo_G]

I'm running a Yep and have soft start enabled, but as the speed builds it will start to pirouette. I'm sure others have had the same issue I'll just have to do some research and see what I can come up with. I'm still thinking that wider tail blades would do the trick. Just a thought, I know a 450 tail rotor will work on a 300x, so would the Oxy 3 blade tail with 450 blades work on the Trex 450? I've got a spare one so when I get time I might just give it a try.

[crashjack]

Does it spin in the air or only on the ground? My 550s will start to turn when spooling up to the point I either have to add rudder in the opposite direction or keep flipping in and out of rate mode which stops the rotation. Turning on the ground isn't uncommon and with the additional torque due to the four blades and the slower headspeed making the tail less powerful, this issue would likely be amplified.

[Emo_G]

It starts to spin on the ground, so I never did get it into the air. I put the stock 2 blade head back on an have been flying with that. I did put a DFC on one of my Airwolfs last week just to see how it would perform, and it works well and looks very nice.
When I get time I'll have another look at the 4 or 5 blade head and see if I can sort it out. I've still got a couple of pod and boom 450 pro's that I could experiment on.

[crashjack]

Any problems with the tail holding with two blades? I was planning on running 2400-2500 rpm and was worried about tail authority with stock blades. I have already performed the "dremel mod" on this heli so I'm getting a little more anti-torque pitch than stock. Do I need to get different tail blades?

[Emo_G]

No problems with the tail with 2 blades. I did lower the head speed a bit in the throttle curve but left the pinion as stock as I wasn't sure at the time how it would preform. With the ones that I have as scale at the moment I may just leave as they are as they work well and when they are in the air you can't tell anyway. I did find that if the head speed is to low the heli will wobble when it's flying, but increasing the head speed will stop it. I'm a great believer in the the saying "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" as tinkering can sometimes put you in a worse position than when you started.
I had a very quick look at the Oxy 3 blade tail rotor and I'm sure it will fit the 450 tail shaft, but have still to physically try it with some 450 blades. If it does work, then it may solve the problem of the pirouette on start up with the 4 blade head. At the moment, as all my Heli's are flying ok, I'll leave the experiment till I need to rebuild one.
The question then will be, what flybarless unit to use?

[crashjack]

Originally Posted by Emo_G

No problems with the tail with 2 blades. I did lower the head speed a bit in the throttle curve but left the pinion as stock as I wasn't sure at the time how it would preform. With the ones that I have as scale at the moment I may just leave as they are as they work well and when they are in the air you can't tell anyway. I did find that if the head speed is to low the heli will wobble when it's flying, but increasing the head speed will stop it. I'm a great believer in the the saying "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" as tinkering can sometimes put you in a worse position than when you started.
I had a very quick look at the Oxy 3 blade tail rotor and I'm sure it will fit the 450 tail shaft, but have still to physically try it with some 450 blades. If it does work, then it may solve the problem of the pirouette on start up with the 4 blade head. At the moment, as all my Heli's are flying ok, I'll leave the experiment till I need to rebuild one.
The question then will be, what flybarless unit to use?

If you aren't using a freewheeling ESC, be careful with lowering headspeed with throttle curve as you can overheat your ESC very easily. Regarding FBL's, I have an AR7200bx on my 450 and Ikons on my 550s. The BeastX units are easy and good if you don't like making adjustments via a PC, phone, etc. The Brain units (includes Ikons), allow you to make a lot of adjustments, and everything is through the PC/smart phone. They are very easy to set up initially, but in my experience require tail tuning, and governor tuning if you use the the governor. They also have bailout, and the new v2 versions have vibration logging. These are the only two FBLs I've used, but I'm happy with them both. Personally, I would rather make changes via the PC and like the governor and bailout features so I like the Ikon better.

[Emo_G]

I understand what you are saying about overheating the esc, good info thanks, but I've been changing the pinion and the curve. So far, all has been ok. The biggest problem I have is not being able to get out and fly as much as I would like due to the wind we have here on the east coast. Any changes I make to the setting may have to wait to be tested foe a week or two, so it is a long process.
I have an ikon I run on one of my Oxy 3's but I'm having a lot of tail wag with that at the moment. I don't understand why as when I first set it up it worked really well, then the wag started. In the end I was only able to cure it by swapping out the ikon for a AR7200 and all was fine again. I do find it a pain having to plug the ikon in to the computer. I prefer the Ar7200bx as it is a doddle to setup.
I must get the 4 blade head out and check it over and also refresh my memory on phasing.

[SCDHU]

Hi Gentlemans!

I dont want to open a new topic and apologise because somewhat i hijacked this topic. Need some help. I bought a used T-rex 450. Can you help me indentify the correct model? I think its a Pro v2.

img1, img2

I want to convert to a scale heli and my second question is this fuselage will fit on my frame? The description says its suitable all T450 model but....

Many thanks for your help.