"3 mistakes high and have bailout ready"

[nitekram]

Not sure what either of these mean, but have seen them enough times, that it is time to ask!!!

I think I understand 3 mistakes high, but can someone explain this?

What is having bailout ready, because if I knew what to do to fix it, I would have not done it in the first place?

[MontrealSi]

Originally Posted by nitekram

Not sure what either of these mean, but have seen them enough times, that it is time to ask!!!

I think I understand 3 mistakes high, but can someone explain this?

What is having bailout ready, because if I knew what to do to fix it, I would have not done it in the first place?

3 mistakes high, just means high enough that you have time to recover and get into a comfortable orientation.

Bailout refers to some gyros that have an electronic self level or rescue feature... Depending on which gyro, they do different things. Some level out and shoot your heli into the sky, so you can retake control once you turn it off.

[nitekram]

OK, so the bailout feature is a hardware device that runs some software to make changes. Is there a place to look up gyros that have this type of feature?

[KSHeli]

The Helicommand HC3SX, which is now the Bavarian Demon BD3SX have the bailout (Captain Rescue) that is usually programmed to a momentary switch on your Tx that when activated will level your heli and then automatically apply collective to launch it skyward until you release/deactivate the switch. Depending on how you have it programmed it will either flip it upright (even from inverted orientation) and then apply collective or it can be programmed to go to the closest orientation, upright or inverted and then apply collective to move it up away from earth, you know that hard stuff. Works great and has saved my helicopter several times, Self Level is just that the heli will level its self but doesn't apply any collective, great for learning new maneuvers and when learning orientations.
Many people believe that the unit is expensive at $499, but one save with a 700 class heli and it pays for itself. The last save of my trex 500 was looking at a potential rekit as it was headed down fast and my stick movements just wasn't correcting it. Basically the bailout just paid for HC3SX on that one.

Go to http://www.bavariandemon.com/en/

[ArchmageAU]

Originally Posted by nitekram

Not sure what either of these mean, but have seen them enough times, that it is time to ask!!!

I think I understand 3 mistakes high, but can someone explain this?

What is having bailout ready, because if I knew what to do to fix it, I would have not done it in the first place?

I think the other have it covered, but i'll add my spin.

3 mistakes high means:

• oops, that's not quite right (lost 10 ft)
• oops, my first correction wasn't right either (lost another 10ft)
• argh, where am I, time for desperate measures. (lost another 10ft!)
• "I am a GOD!!!" (miraculous save inches from the deck!!).

If you were less than 3 mistakes high it would be back to ordering spares time off flying for fixing a broken heli.

Remember these phases happen in split seconds (which seem like minutes if you realise your 500+ size heli is spiralling at you )

Under power a CP heli can plummet 10m in under a second.

Have bailout ready means have a practised way of exiting the manoeuvre (not the helicommand rescue feature).

For example, when hovering nose in for the first time, be prepared (and have room) to spin the tail 180 degrees to get to upright tail-in (a safe orientation). Also punch positive collective at the same time to give you distance between ground and heli.

Another example in starting inverted, if you start tail-in and flip forward of backward to inverted. Bail out is pull both sticks back to gain height and flip to upright.

The advanced FBL unit (helicommand) BD3SX (like what I have on my Gaui X5 ), has a rescue function which will "escape to sky" with a button press. These units are expensive, but it they save you from crashing, they are worth the premium. You must practice these reactions though as the button only works if you press it. Even thought I have a BD3SX, I do not rely on the rescue function to same me. I have never used my BD3SX rescue except to test or demonstrate. I practice moves in sim and manual bail-outs from those moves (and Heli-X reaction trainer ). The BD3SX rescue is a last resort when your brain seizes or goes "HOLY !@#$ !!! ".

[suthae]

That's right.... Bailout is a manouvere or move that you could quickly execute to get you to a safer zone to correct yourself, while practicing any new moves.

In actual fact, you should have a bailout move planned for any manouver that you fly

[Steve Graham]

Having a bailout is analogous to something my dad told me repeatedly when teaching me to fly many years ago. "Always leave yourself an out" What this meant in the context we were discussing meant making sure that any thing you were getting ready to do with an airplane that involved any amount of risk like shooting an instrument approach or a visual approach into a mountainous airport needed to have a "plan B" just in case things didn't evolve as you expected. Thinking things through before you have that "hey fella's watch this!" moment is a basic tenet of airmanship that can be easily applied to our models.

The traditional wisdom of having a bailout ready being re-interpreted as hitting a switch that magically saves your heli is laughable, to me anyway. While I admire the technology it's the methodology that bugs me. It's kind of like "I don't need to know how to fly I can try anything and the magic button will save me." and equal to the proverbial doctor in a Bonanza who has an elevated sense of his flying safely based solely on the fact that the aircraft has an autopilot. Time and again these types have launched themselves and frequently their families into weather conditions that were not only beyond their own capabilities but those of their aircraft only to become statistics.

I think the bailouts and auto levelers have their place especially for those without local help just learning to fly. Beyond that however I fear they will become a crutch for those unwilling to use a logical approach to skill progression and learning new maneuvers without unduly placing their model at risk.

[Tomy.]

To make it simple. Examples of a trivial bailout readiness is to keep telling yourself when learning nose-in hovers to pull the cyclic stick back if something goes wrong (this will back the heli away from you).

PS: Several new gyro's like the SK720 and the Ikon also have the electronic bailout features that were also discussed a few posts back. They are not that expensive, if you get them through HF forum.

[ArchmageAU]

Originally Posted by Steve Graham

I think the bailouts and auto levelers have their place especially for those without local help just learning to fly. Beyond that however I fear they will become a crutch for those unwilling to use a logical approach to skill progression and learning new maneuvers without unduly placing their model at risk.

Exactly. A bailout switch is a LAST resort. Like an emergency parachute. You fight to untangle your chute first (learned bailout) before cutting away and pulling the emergency (button). There is always a chance your backup will fail, so hopefully you never need to use it.

My plan for my bailout is threefold.

• When trying a new move (I have it ready as my backup if regular fly-out fail).
• When trying to prevent a full re-kit from a mechanical failure (like tail fail - BD3SX can keep a heli spinning at max yaw roughly level as it climbs before TH and forced-auto).
• If I get a brain fade, freak or lock up, it can be used to get me to a safe place to return, land and packup (instead of pickup).

I don't go fly like a maniac and try moves I have not perfected in the sim trusting the "switch" to save me. That is asking for trouble.

[nitekram]

I am so glad I asked these questions...may I ask that @ArchmageAU add this definition to the original posting or maybe link to this post wherever is say Bail-Out? I think with these definitions and the training manual, it will improve any ones flying ability - I know with this new info, it will be put to good use.

Thanks so much..

[ArchmageAU]

Originally Posted by nitekram

I am so glad I asked these questions...may I ask that @ArchmageAU add this definition to the original posting or maybe link to this post wherever is say Bail-Out? I think with these definitions and the training manual, it will improve any ones flying ability - I know with this new info, it will be put to good use.

Thanks so much..

Glad the information helped.

The original comment was from "It only took me 13 months...."

Originally Posted by ArchmageAU

...You will do fine. (3 mistakes high and have bailout ready as usual ) ...

Unfortunately, with:

Originally Posted by ArchmageAU

..From tail-in to all 8s and funnels in 6 months....

The master post is not able to be edited (at least not by me, only the system admins).

In fact every time I used the term "bail out" in that post, I specified what the actions for bail-out need to be.

The "3 mistakes high" is an RC flying rule of thumb that pre-dates helifreak.

This forum is all about information to help people fly better. Glad these terms are now part of your vocabulary. (and this thread is a record of the terms).

[nitekram]

I see that now, but did not know what it was about - until I asked the question. I see now that you were letting us know what actions to use for the bail-out.

Again, many thanks to your hard work, or do you just believe, like I do, that as you teach others, you are really teaching yourself?

[ArchmageAU]

Originally Posted by nitekram

Again, many thanks to your hard work, or do you just believe, like I do, that as you teach others, you are really teaching yourself?

You are welcome.

To a small extent, when teaching others, you also learn from them. The other main personal reasons for doing so much is that:

• I get the biggest buzz out of watching (or hearing about) people succeed.
• By formulating it into words, it helps clarify what I have learned
• By making it available to others, more can learn this wonderful (and frustrating) hobby.
• By sharing information, it encourages others to share information. (from which I can learn more - I think I covered this in the intro ).
• There was a lack of detailed "beginner digestible" information on how to get from "barely competent" to "confidently competent" without access to flying clubs and the "secret knowledge" the experienced pilots seem to have.

If I can get more people flying confidently, the hobby will grow, demand will increase and so will supply (to meet demand).

[nitekram]

Originally Posted by ArchmageAU

You are welcome.

To a small extent, when teaching others, you also learn from them. The other main personal reasons for doing so much is that:

• By formulating it into words, it helps clarify what I have learned

This is what I meant...having to tell/share with someone, your knowledge, helps you to remember and really understand it. Otherwise, you will not be able to explain it to someone else.

Something (maybe the only thing) I got from a College class I took, about how to learn.

[ArchmageAU]

Originally Posted by nitekram

...
Something (maybe the only thing) I got from a College class I took, about how to learn.

I'm a few years past college age, but in a profession where I regularly need to explain quite complex concepts to others. I had to learn how to explain complex concepts to others (and how others may think and what they may already know). From this learning, I also learned that I need a deeper understanding of the concept being explained so I can express it in language they can understand (with examples and analogies relevant to the reader/listener).

Explanations become an art in their own right.

The problem with writing for a public media is that you must make some base assumptions on the level of peoples experience and understanding. Hopefully I got this mostly right for novice to intermediate HFer's.

[Steve Graham]

Originally Posted by ArchmageAU

To a small extent, when teaching others, you also learn from them.

+1 except I would suggest changing small to "the largest extent possible"

For all the reasons you listed.

[RogerRabit]

When you are able to teach others you have a deep understanding of what you are doing.

I also like to teach people as it helps me to progress.
Buddyboxing inexperienced pupils in orientation training is a excellent training for yourself.
And it is less boring.

[HelisRock]

The easiest way to go 3 mistakes high is to fly from the top of a hill. I've found that already being 2 mistakes high at eye level is tremendously confidence building as you learn new moves. It gives you multiple chances to bail out from a move gone wrong.

As people have mentioned, it's always a good idea to have a bail out plan mapped out in your head when trying something new. I some times even practice bail out moves - I think that's saved me a couple of times.

[fjoe]

Originally Posted by HelisRock

The easiest way to go 3 mistakes high is to fly from the top of a hill. I've found that already being 2 mistakes high at eye level is tremendously confidence building as you learn new moves.

+1 This is good advice!