KDE motor?

[Turttle]

Originally Posted by Sonixs

I recently fitted a 500XF to my EFL...All I can say is WOW! This is one awesome powerhouse.

I'm running 16/162 with GOV HS of 2700...the setup runs super efficiently producing flight times of 6-7 minutes sport flying and running at 20A average draw for the flight.

I've not flown the Scorpion Motors and after the 500XF I won't be either


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Thanks sonix for the info I think I am going to stick with this scorpion 1400 kv for a while.Im also a sport and mild 3d flier 2700 hs sounds good along with flight time.I will let you know how this cnc tail conversion turns out with the 31t option.Still waiting on it lol but it should wake up the tale quite a bit at that rpm.

[Turttle]

Just picked up the xf500 sonix.Yeah its a beast.My scale prodject is getting closer and I could not pass up the promo price for the kde.The i2 boom which I think you purchased with the esp gearing is insane.Piroetts are smooth and fast had to run 20 expo in tail which I honestly never do but its a solid set up.Digen it.

[Turttle]

Hmm.Final thoughts between the scorpion 1400kv and the new xf500.Does this motor need time to break in or something.Its a good motor it is a lot smoother and its definatly got a little more pull but my headspead droped quite a bit.I had to varify it in my log but it droped a good 100rpm.Im not getting those high spikes of 69 amps that I was with the scorpion and it stays around 50 something so far but im not thinking this motor is worth the huge price difference.My esc is set to what is recomended and running 4.02.Running exact set up and equipment thats on kde sight.I was thinking with 1450kv It would slightly increase hs not lower it.All in all good motor but the price factor between the scorpion and kde sets them apart as there about equal scropion is smaller and less weight but kde has just a bit more pull even with a lower hs.I think the spikes has to do with scorpion and ice 80hv2 did not seem to agree with the motor but seems to be a match for the kde.

[KDE Direct]

The biggest difference you will see and feel in-flight is when you lower your gearing ratio (such as run a 17T pinion with the 162T gear on the 500 series), in which you allow the motor to have the voltage overhead from the LiPos and maintain headspeed. Right now, you are running the motor wide-open on both, so your performance is directly related to the LiPos, which is your limiting factor in the current setup.

Take a look at the setups on the website (http://www.kdedirect.com/PerformanceSetups.html) and if you want outstanding performance, look at the 500E PRO running 2900 RPM on the 17T pinion. The motor is essentially unboggable on this setup and will get you the performance you are looking for.

[Turttle]

Originally Posted by KDE Direct

The biggest difference you will see and feel in-flight is when you lower your gearing ratio (such as run a 17T pinion with the 162T gear on the 500 series), in which you allow the motor to have the voltage overhead from the LiPos and maintain headspeed. Right now, you are running the motor wide-open on both, so your performance is directly related to the LiPos, which is your limiting factor in the current setup.

Take a look at the setups on the website (http://www.kdedirect.com/PerformanceSetups.html) and if you want outstanding performance, look at the 500E PRO running 2900 RPM on the 17T pinion. The motor is essentially unboggable on this setup and will get you the performance you are looking for.

Its definatly a good motor I was just not really wanting to change the gear out.Was not expecting a lower headspeed with a higher kv motor.It does have a smoother feel and yes the torque is definatly there.I am happy with the motor first thing I noticed was headspeed but punch outs I was in a bit of aww as it pulled pretty hard kinda like a 2 stroke to a 4 stroke.Im not having the high amp spikes with this motor like with the scorpion as well.Pitch pumps so far log as only given me a max of 50/55 amps where my scorpion was pushing 67 amps.Works good with the cc controller.Runs a bit cooler as well.20 dagreas cooler.

[KDE Direct]

Originally Posted by Turttle

Its definatly a good motor I was just not really wanting to change the gear out.Was not expecting a lower headspeed with a higher kv motor.It does have a smoother feel and yes the torque is definatly there.I am happy with the motor first thing I noticed was headspeed but punch outs I was in a bit of aww as it pulled pretty hard kinda like a 2 stroke to a 4 stroke.Im not having the high amp spikes with this motor like with the scorpion as well.Pitch pumps so far log as only given me a max of 50/55 amps where my scorpion was pushing 67 amps.Works good with the cc controller.Runs a bit cooler as well.20 dagreas cooler.

Glad to hear you're enjoying it. If you don't want to use Governor Mode, you can increase the headspeed by increasing the Motor Timing - you can go to the maximum of High (10) in the Castle Code and everything will still run excellent. Increasing Timing will always increase the motor RPM (and resultant headspeed), at a slight increase in heat and lower efficiency.

For Governor Mode, the XF series work best and deliver the most torque at the Low (0) timing. For throttle curves, you can raise the timing to get the desired RPM and you'll be able to get 100+ rpm in doing so.

[Turttle]

Originally Posted by KDE Direct

Glad to hear you're enjoying it. If you don't want to use Governor Mode, you can increase the headspeed by increasing the Motor Timing - you can go to the maximum of High (10) in the Castle Code and everything will still run excellent. Increasing Timing will always increase the motor RPM (and resultant headspeed), at a slight increase in heat and lower efficiency.

For Governor Mode, the XF series work best and deliver the most torque at the Low (0) timing. For throttle curves, you can raise the timing to get the desired RPM and you'll be able to get 100+ rpm in doing so.

Aw ok sweet.Im not using gov just tx curves.Motor run supper cool.I just ordered the strait cut 162t with a 17t pinion.I like the slant gearing but ive been hearing bad things about it.Ive opted not to use the esc gov and have had no problems with tx settings.Im shooting for a median between moderate 3d or sport as the tail is not constanly moving but the basics tic tocs stationary flips and rolls tornados and stop on the dime descents ect.Thanks for the support.I think the timing was why the hs droped but none the less it still flies great.It just keeps pulling
Thanks for having that promotion deal as soon as I seen that I quickly jumped on it and very happy with the money spent and quality of the product.I think its going to last a long time.

[Turttle]

Well I increased the timing to normal and the headspeed dropped and the motor ran a little warmer.It only droped about 50-75 rpmIm happy with the motor it runs smooth and has plenty of tourque my only confeusion is that 1450 rpm a volt is fals.My scorpion is 1400kv and my max headspeed with same timming was 2900rpm where as the kde/cc is only 1750 running factory align dfc gearing.I just recieved the stait cut gears and my set up is exactly whats on the kde sight eccept I am running a 80hv2.It will be fine when I pute the gear in but its definately not 1450kv or maybe it has something to do with scorpions 8khz and kde 12khz.Feels like the kde will take more power if that makes sence.But other than that it stays cool has a ton of torque and is built to work with cc esc and log files show a good consistant running motor with consistant amp draw there both intune to work togeather..Also I notice you guys are running the align servos at 7 volts.Any problems with that as its a 6 volt servo.

[Sonixs]

Originally Posted by Turttle

Well I increased the timing to normal and the headspeed dropped and the motor ran a little warmer.It only droped about 50-75 rpmIm happy with the motor it runs smooth and has plenty of tourque my only confeusion is that 1450 rpm a volt is fals.My scorpion is 1400kv and my max headspeed with same timming was 2900rpm where as the kde/cc is only 1750 running factory align dfc gearing.I just recieved the stait cut gears and my set up is exactly whats on the kde sight eccept I am running a 80hv2.It will be fine when I pute the gear in but its definately not 1450kv or maybe it has something to do with scorpions 8khz and kde 12khz.Feels like the kde will take more power if that makes sence.But other than that it stays cool has a ton of torque and is built to work with cc esc and log files show a good consistant running motor with consistant amp draw there both intune to work togeather..Also I notice you guys are running the align servos at 7 volts.Any problems with that as its a 6 volt servo.

Missed your original post! Been chasing my tail these past few weeks.
I'm very happy with the 500XF and switched to 16/162 straight gears off the bat. I'm not a fan of high HS as I prefer flight time. As you say this motor has plenty of torque and doesn't shy away from anything my current skill set can throw at it. In conjunction with the I2 mount produces a real sweet heli.

I binned my 500 quite seriously shorting out the motor and killing the ESC. KDE sorted me out with a replacement motor with no questions asked...another plus for this motor is the support KDE provides. Anywho I decided to try out a Kontronik Jive 100lv as I couldn't really find the sweet spot with the CC.

With the Jive this motor is really shining. HS is still in the 2600-2800 range but the packs are significantly cooler as well as the motor!


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[Turttle]

Originally Posted by Sonixs

Missed your original post! Been chasing my tail these past few weeks.
I'm very happy with the 500XF and switched to 16/162 straight gears off the bat. I'm not a fan of high HS as I prefer flight time. As you say this motor has plenty of torque and doesn't shy away from anything my current skill set can throw at it. In conjunction with the I2 mount produces a real sweet heli.

I binned my 500 quite seriously shorting out the motor and killing the ESC. KDE sorted me out with a replacement motor with no questions asked...another plus for this motor is the support KDE provides. Anywho I decided to try out a Kontronik Jive 100lv as I couldn't really find the sweet spot with the CC.

With the Jive this motor is really shining. HS is still in the 2600-2800 range but the packs are significantly cooler as well as the motor!


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So far its been a smooth running motor.I was just a bit dumb founded couldnt understand why my head speed lowered with a higher kv motor than what I was running?But its no biggie I am running mine with a 80hv2 with factory dfc gearing.Headspeed with this motor is about 2750 just shy of 100% flat curve.Flight time is still the same about 8 min.Amp draw is consistant and not really any high spikes.Its just an all around smooth motor.Runs cooler than the scorpion.Im happy with it I also just got the 17/162 gearing to acheive some overhead.
As far as tail ive been chasing mine as well.Was running the s9257 which was fine until the i2 gearing option then had some bounce back and kicked out a couple inches on pitch pumps and hard collective.I then purchased the bls 257 which had quite a bit more torque and something like 35% more responce but I did not see any thing different than running the s9257.Now I have the standard size bls 251 but have not installed it yet.

[Sonixs]

Originally Posted by Turttle

So far its been a smooth running motor.I was just a bit dumb founded couldnt understand why my head speed lowered with a higher kv motor than what I was running?But its no biggie I am running mine with a 80hv2 with factory dfc gearing.Headspeed with this motor is about 2750 just shy of 100% flat curve.Flight time is still the same about 8 min.Amp draw is consistant and not really any high spikes.Its just an all around smooth motor.Runs cooler than the scorpion.Im happy with it I also just got the 17/162 gearing to acheive some overhead.
As far as tail ive been chasing mine as well.Was running the s9257 which was fine until the i2 gearing option then had some bounce back and kicked out a couple inches on pitch pumps and hard collective.I then purchased the bls 257 which had quite a bit more torque and something like 35% more responce but I did not see any thing different than running the s9257.Now I have the standard size bls 251 but have not installed it yet.

You may find that the 17/162 is going to be real hard on your packs. I bought both options and started with 16/162 and never moved on as I had exactly what I was looking for. Interestingly enough, with Jive mode 4 I can run up to 2900 with my current gearing according to Mr Mel's.

My tail is also holding a LOT better with the Jive, I think the GOV works a lot better, no logging unfortunately, but from flight experience it feels and sounds a load smoother.

I ended up sticking with a mini servo and installed an MKS8910A+...had a few mechanical issues which related to the flanged bearings in the double pitch tail slider. Once these were replaced the combination of I2 and MKS has my tail holding like glue!

Lastly, a friend of mine is rewinding my original 500XF which I killed. He'll be using 1.4mm single strand copper, and will be testing a 4+4 wye termination as there's plenty of space on the stator, winding for the same kv. He was impressed with the motor, bearings, stator, fiberglass plate, magnets and ease of disassembly. I'm itching to test his work.


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[Turttle]

I was wanting to stay with the mini but after the bls 257 not holding up got the 251.Your not having any bounce backs on tail?I may half to look into the mks before cutting into my frame.The bls 251 is quite a bit heavier.Also 2900 hs is right where I want to be.This is where my top headspeed was with the1400 kv scorpion on factory gearing.Packs came down barely warm along with the electronics.I think just simply a 13t slant would make my day lol...

[Sonixs]

Originally Posted by Turttle

I was wanting to stay with the mini but after the bls 257 not holding up got the 251.Your not having any bounce backs on tail?I may half to look into the mks before cutting into my frame.The bls 251 is quite a bit heavier.Also 2900 hs is right where I want to be.This is where my top headspeed was with the1400 kv scorpion on factory gearing.Packs came down barely warm along with the electronics.I think just simply a 13t slant would make my day lol...

My tail holds like glue with HS as low as 2600...very impressed with the 8910! I find that high HS just eats up the packs. I can perform all my flight maneuvers at 2600 just as well as at 2900, no 3d though. I prefer torque over speed, just a personal preference I guess.

13T...good luck with that. I considered asking KDE if they could fit a larger diameter shaft in the 500XF as I'm sure you can find a 13t helical pinion for a larger shaft diameter. Just a brain fart that I've not continued


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[Pard]

Originally Posted by KDE Direct

The biggest difference you will see and feel in-flight is when you lower your gearing ratio (such as run a 17T pinion with the 162T gear on the 500 series), in which you allow the motor to have the voltage overhead from the LiPos and maintain headspeed. Right now, you are running the motor wide-open on both, so your performance is directly related to the LiPos, which is your limiting factor in the current setup.

Take a look at the setups on the website (http://www.kdedirect.com/PerformanceSetups.html) and if you want outstanding performance, look at the 500E PRO running 2900 RPM on the 17T pinion. The motor is essentially unboggable on this setup and will get you the performance you are looking for.

I just purchased a used 500XF 1450KV with a Ice 75, running 2500RPM 16T pinion, 162T main gear on my 500 ESP with IKOn governor at 2500.

This setup replaced an align 500mx motor and align 70A esc, ikon governor.

I am impressed with the torque of the KDE. Pulls through giant loops effortlessly. The align 500mx seemed to interact with the ikon governor with little to no chatter, but I am getting some chatter with the KDE, mostly when in hover.

Any ideas?

[taoY]

Try a lower governor gain just few points. KDE motor reacts to the throttle changes faster than other motors.

[Pard]

Originally Posted by taoY

Try a lower governor gain just few points. KDE motor reacts to the throttle changes faster than other motors.

Will do. Thanks.

[Pard]

Originally Posted by Pard

Will do. Thanks.

I tried lowering the governor gain on the Ikon basic setup screen (simple slider from 0-100 with no PID breakdown unlike on the advanced setup screen) from 50 to 45 which helped but still not perfect chatter free.

I tried it at 40 and still not perfect chatter free, but overall performance was worse because of the slow response.

I disabled the Ikon governor and went with the internal castle governor which was better in terms of chatter, but still had some. I used the recommended KDE setting from their website.

Good enough. I will fly it as is.

Interesting though, I have found that with Align motors, I almost never get any chatter. Higher performance motors such as Scorpion and now the KDE, seem to be harder for me to eliminate all chatter and still maintain acceptable performance.

[LoveToFly1]

are all of the other settings for the motor correct? timing, PWM......

i dont get any chatter at all with the KDE motors on my Castle Gov. but i have with scorpion, and i couldnt get it tuned out. i know it can be a reap PITA....lol

[Pard]

Originally Posted by LoveToFly1

are all of the other settings for the motor correct? timing, PWM......

i dont get any chatter at all with the KDE motors on my Castle Gov. but i have with scorpion, and i couldnt get it tuned out. i know it can be a reap PITA....lol

Confirmed the settings and tweaked plenty. Good enough as is.

Overall amazing setup with impressive power, but the Align MX I had on there was chatter free. Worthwhile upgrade for the torque available. Love doing loops that are as big as my vision will allow without a hint of bogging.

[LoveToFly1]

yea, I can actually bog my scorpion motors in huge hurricanes....not the KDE motors.

I am still slightly perplexed with your chatter issue though....have you replaced the OWB? could be the extra torque from the KDE is actually making it slip under high loads.....very possible...