Progress Report

[copterboy]

Originally Posted by Tjomp

Hey, Dennis. I got some Beam spare parts left over after my Beam drowned. And I do have a used Beam E4 swashplate that should be in good condition. Send me your address in a PM and I'll mail it to you. (for free of course).

Tomas, thank you very much for the generous offer. Having read it is a quality piece of equipment, I would feel guilty taking off yours hands FOC. Are you sure you'll never need it again, or to ease my guilt, could I at least re-imburse the postage?

Maybe I should see how it goes with the revamped swash for now, and then PM you if I do require it Eg. If it does become sloppy, or when I do go for the FBL upgrade? It really does seem to have worked a treat, but I have still got Luke's warning at the back of my mind. Incidentally, no one ever answered my question in the 450 forum!!

I managed to get the tail section completed last night including the new shaft and new pitch control arm. Really like the design, and just hope it doesn't end up going sloppy really quickly. How does the saying go, more parts, more there is to go wrong? I did hit a snag during the install, as I used the original socket screws and didn't replace them with the button head screws supplied . Thought I got threadlock in a bearing, but it turned out to be the first pivot arm was binding against the socket screw head I simply replaced the 1 offending screw with 1 of the 6 button head screws supplied (keeping 5 as spare), and problem was resolved. Also, forgot to check servo arms were 90, so had to pull the 2 front servo's again to adjust. Mentioned to sutty about the newly designed main bearing/servo block, which helps with alignment of the main shaft, and make the front servo's/motor mount easier to access. Definately added to my wishlist

So for tonight, I just got to screw the head back on and go over the CCPM setup. Will check the tail/gyro in garden tomorrow after work, then I should be back down the field soon after Probably working till sunset Monday so most likely to be Tuesday.

Thanks again for the loan Sutty. Always good to meet like minded folk and chat over a brew (shame it couldn't be more). Was the band any good then, looked like I dodged a bullet there?

[sutty]

lol, you did for sure. They were probably okay, but I'm so old, all I could think of was, damn how loud are these? Supped the pint we were on in double quick time when they started and fired off to the next pub. Could still hear them there!

Cheers

Sutty

[Tjomp]

Denis, I wouldn't be offering it to you if I didn't really mean it. I'll send you a PM.

[Tjomp]

So I got my Protos converted to FBL and ready to go but the weather is not permitting me to actually go and fly the damn thing. I went ahead and snapped some pics of it to kill some time. Here goes.

[Tomstoy2]

You're going to love fbl, my friend!

Still, I'm wondering why you are jumping in so quickly to this unproven technology?

[Tjomp]

ROFL, Tom.
And I, who thought there was import restrictions on sarcasm to the US.

I've tried FBL before and it failed miserably. This time it's going to work out. It just have to.

[jperkosk]

Naaah, there is no import restrictions to the US on practically anything except Cuban cigars

[sutty]

Looks sharp Tom. Anyway, found this you tube vid of Tareq from 3 weeks ago. Almost as fantastical as the flying is the number of views on you tube. I find it hard to believe that over half a million people have watched this movie. I'm about to watch it for the 4th time, because I can't believe it, but I'll only count as one in the stats. Does anyone else find it almost inconceivable that in 3 weeks half a million people could watch it. I mean come on, some famous pop tarts latest awesome video track, but a heli flight? Nearly everyone I know has no interest at all, and I mean 'at all'.

Anyway, here it is. Watch in full HD and full screen. Simply awesome. The precision is breathtaking.



Cheers

Sutty

[Tomstoy2]

He's almost as good as you, Sut, my man!

[copterboy]

How he did'nt get taken down by those tree's will forever remain a mystery . Watched it on my 37" screen, and I found myself ducking for cover when he was doing those mobius 8's about 6" from the ground and what must be no more than 6ft infront of the camera

Anyways, I got my re-build finished, but discovered a couple of issue's I want to discuss. Well more the latter, as we already know about the first

So, upon reassembly, I was checking the head for slop, and indeed the swashplate has developed 1-2mm of slop between the two halfs (I read about this problem whilst trying to find an answer about my stiff balls ). As the swashplate is not servicable, then that will require a new swashplate (Thanks again to Tjomp for offering up the Beam swash ) PM sent, and good luck with your FBL maiden . Sure I will be able to test fly the swashplate, but as for keeping it in service I expect the slop will be detrimental to the solidness of a hover, and the heli could be bobbing up and down unexpectedly, as I am doing a straight forwards flight.

Second, my main blades (I think) are way too tight. Can anyone confirm, how tight they should be on the 450? I really do have to use some force to slide them in, and once the main blade screw and nylock nut are snug (not tightened), they just will not move without a huge amount of force. These were allegedly a pair of 'cosmetic 2nd's' I got at the LHS (remember I spray painted the first pair?). Well, I can get more blades ordered, and will try to sand down the root thickness, but do you guys think I will be ok to fly with them like this, or can you remind me about the effects of having blades too tight just so I can look out for the symptoms and at least have a chance of knowing how I should react in advance of any test flights?

I'm thinking at least to make sure the blades are straight before spool up, as to avoid any spool up wobbles or tip overs!! But what are effects too look out for in flight and landing? Any tips appreciated

EDIT: Sutty, I have some TOS's en route now, so will get one sent out to you in the post next week.

EDIT EDIT : Oh, one more issue now I'm back on the Align servo's - servo horn slop. Will just order a new set to check it wasn't crash damage that caused the plastic arms to become sloppy. But have done some rreading on it, and like the swash slop, the servo slop is also a known issue!!

[sutty]

Cheers Denis, No great rush on the tail shaft as I have a spare one at the moment, so not planing on having two quick crashes in a row, lol. As for the over tight blades, I had that exact same issue on one set of those cosmetic seconds. They were so tight in the grips I knew I had no choice but to make them dead straight in the grips before flight. Of course at such tighness they wouldn't have been able to lag in the grips during flight, so the head should have had a little less ability to handle buffeting and avoid pitching up in forward flight, however, since I was running an fbl controller I think it just took care of all this for me and I didn't notice any difference at all from what I was used to where I run them tight, but not massively tight.

As for your swash slop, if it is really up to 2mm that sounds way too much. That is like a gaping hole, about to fall apart. Are you sure it is up to 2mm?

Servos, well I haven't used that size of Align, but the ones I use on the 250, 550 and 600 have all been fine. I was scrutinising my 550 the other day and looking at exactly that and thought there was a little slop, but considered it to be insignificant, and that has had a lot of flights.

My criteria is if it flies then it is okay,

Cheers

Sutty

[Tjomp]

YES.. that´s the quick summary of my day... YES.....

It started out to look ugly when we got invited to some family stuff on one of the best flying days since the Vikings. My excellent spouse recognized my disappointment and told me to go fly, she would cover for me.

I am happy to report that my FBL Protos worked out very nicely. It´s super stable yet agile. On the first pack I took it quite easy. Just zooming around being careful. The tail was slightly strange. Holding but still being mushy. Pack 2, I increased tail gyro gain by two clicks and it was nailed. I started getting used to the now more sensitive cyclic.
Pack 3, I really enjoyed. Had built the confidence in the thing to throw it around a little more aggressively and even took some chances on the edge of my flying skills.
Pack 4. Damn I got no pack 4 for this heli. Oh well, nice to have something on my wishlist.

This evening I am going to spend at a friends house drinking beer and hanging with the guys. So again, the quick summary of my day is : YES!

[sutty]

Glad you had a good day Tomas. I know exactly how you feel but not from today mind you. I took the 450 out for a spin, and on the 4th pack had a brain fade and during a low level inverted forward pass I couldn't think which way to work the elevator, and as a result I wrong sticked it into the ground. Don't ask me why I couldn't reverse what I was doing when I saw it going more wrong, but I couldn't, I simply compounded it by doing it more and more and more. Of course I didn't have long before the inevitable crunch. Got away with bent long links, badly bent mainshaft, bent tail boom, and stripped main gear. After straightening the boom, torque tube was surprisingly still straight, and straightening the long links, I've managed to get it flying again for the cost of only a mainshaft and a main gear. Not bad eh!

Had to strip it down quite a bit for the repairs, so it took me about two hours, but I still managed to get another 4 packs in without further issue, finishing in the fast fading light, just as the sun had set.

Cheers

Sutty

[jperkosk]

That sucks. We all know that all it takes is to lock up for a second or two... Glad the damage wasn't too severe, though

[Tjomp]

You can't be flying faultlessly all the time, Andrew. It's important to keep those mechanics skills sharp.

[sutty]

Cheers guys. lol, faultlessly Tomas, that would be nice. I have to perform some sort of recovery about once or twice per pack, if not more. It depends on what I'm trying out really. That was what I was most unhappy about, as I didn't react and do the opposite. I just seemed to be blindly stuck with what didn't work, and probably accelerated through it, by pulling back more and more and more, bang! I suppose like Jerry said, we all suffer from a brain lock up every now and again, but it is still a tad frustrating.

Don't get me wrong, I got away with next to nothing, and as you say Tomas the extra mechanical practivce won't hurt, but still I was a little disapointed.

Cheers

Sutty

[copterboy]

Well guys, it's been a few days, so just wanted to catch up after promising more progress with the 450 rebuild! Have been keeping up with everyone's endeavours, whilst not being able to do much myself. Nice to hear some of the regular northern hemispherians are having a good summer at least - It's great when you get one of those 'perfect' days, they are so few and far between!!

I'm now saving for a holiday at the end of this month with my son. Was hoping to fly more this week, but once again, my phone rang with 3 job enquiries yesterday, which I could fit in this week, and double my potential earnings. So now, besides the day job, I'm working as many hours as I can to fit them all in!! As it's school holidays, I'm spending more time with my son also, so it's making it very difficult to get out with my heli as i'm working all the daylight hours and coming home worn out, then the cheeky little sausage won't go to sleep till it goes dark about 9.30. In that respect - I can't wait for winter and the dark night's again

Did manage a couple of packs on the re-built 450 at weekend as mentioned. First pack, I was adjusting the pitch. Second pack, I realised there was a problem with the tail. Acceleration and stopping of piro's was way too slow in one direction, but seemed almost normal the other way (but still slower than normal). Tried a few gain adjustments, then realised I'd not reset the tail servo's endpoints

Spent some time just observing the heli in a hover and doing a few cyclic stick inputs, just to try and see if there was any noticable effect from the servo/swash slop. I have to agree with Sutty - it fly's, but it does seem slower to react, and just not as solid/locked in as I know it can be. So I think it will be ok to fly whilst I get used to going out again However, once I'm doing fast FF etc again, or flying in windy conditions (or both!), I believe the slop will really start to bug me, plus I have the tight blades too think about too! At this stage, I can only conclude that I will be thinking more about anticipating corrections, than just being able to relax and concentrate on flying. But until I get out regularly again, it shouldn't be too much of a problem, or a better word would be 'distraction'.

I managed to get the endpoints reset this morning before work (after watching the finless setup vid to refresh my memory). So, I feel it is ready for a field test tomorrow (but will only be a quick 2 packs during my lunch break). Looking forward to getting to a big space and trying some flips and rolls, so I can confirm that is ok.

The rest of this week is just work, work, work and then family again at weekend. Keeping my fingers crossed tomorrows test will allow me to continue flying, as opposed to grounding it over some other technical difficulty. Then at least I still have a hope I can think about sneaking out inbetween my other commitments

Sorry to hear about the crashes Jerry & Sutty, but also glad the damage was light. Sutty, I was waiting to hear you say the output shaft had gone and you now need it!! Glad it didn't becme urgent. I've got yours sat in the envelope addressed, but it's looking like it will be Friday afternoon before I can get to a PO (typical builder finishing early on a Friday I hear you say ).

One thing that made me chuckle in Jerrys vid was after the 550 hit the ground and lay there shaking, the screen shot was of the weather front that allegedly brought it down. Was kinda like one of those psychic flashback scenes from a cop drama, where you get to see who dunnit through the last few seconds of the victims eye's

Tom, thanks for the link to that scale build, I'm still working my way through it!! Keep reading a few more posts each time I get a spare moment. Nice to see a build well built, even if not precisely to scale. I agree with how he's going about it, although understand the comments from the scale entusiast - he could be marked down if on show. My school of thought would be, if I'm spending that much money on it, whats the point of doing it in a way you don't like. Might aswell add a few mods to show off your skills, and make it how you would want it to work. Interesting video of yours too, nice to see the RTH feature in action. That 100% saved you a crash and $$$, not to mention the time searching for the damned thing, and then re-building. Good to see & know then, that the claims of this new fangled technology actually work Can't wait till I can afford to stick something like it on one of my heli's!

Will let you guys know how things go tomorrow...oh better check the weather forecast. Phew..it's ok, but I better make sure it is tomorrow. Rest of week isn't looking the best!

[copterboy]

Hey chaps, done another test flight and my tail is blowing out when I do a pitch pump. Any ideas?
The tail will go ccw btw.

Cheers

[Tjomp]

Denis, I bet you know at least as much as me if not more on setting up a heli. I just want to remind you to recheck the endpoints of the tailgyro/fbl controller.

[jperkosk]

Hmmm, the gyro presumably being sane I would look at something bent or unbalanced on the tail. One tail grip slightly heavier than another on 6HV drove me nuts for months