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Mikado Logo 700 Xxtreme Mikado Logo 700 Xxtreme Helicopters Discussion |
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11-27-2012, 02:39 PM | #1 (permalink) |
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Mr. Dahl open discussion on blade sizes
So here we are, a new 700 and we have options all way up to 753mm main blades!
I wanted to out this into open discussion so as we all as new owners of the heli can share our experiences with different blades and so on. What I personally want to try in future is up to 753mm mains, however I really would like to hear from Dave as well as anyone here with this thread moving forward their experiences in trying different blades. Right now and this is just a thought, but I think it would be awesome to see some 723-733mm mains, a slightly larger blade in chord and length then the 713mm now. To start I wanted to ask what sizes and setups has Kyle has tried etc....
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...Once upon a time there were Nitros, flybars & frequency pins...Shawn |
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11-27-2012, 05:41 PM | #2 (permalink) |
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The threads all seem to blend together after awhile (a sure sign I spend too much time writing on the forums), but I have posted some results in the past about running the 700 on 13S and 753mm blades. I can't remember the thread, but the bottom line was, it wasn't a good set-up (at least for Kyle...let me explain of course).
We figured the added weight of the extra cell (and we were also using a more powerful 4530 motor), being offset by the larger disc area of the 753's, would result in a "higher level of overall performance" with the heli. Not so. The system ran hot, batteries came back more discharged, and the performance was not much (if any) better. In the end, for lack of a better reason, I suspect the larger and wider chord 753's were just too much blade for the power system combo. A narrower chord 723mm or 733mm on 13S might be worth a look??? Now Kyle ran the 753's on the Logo 800 for a time, but that was on 14S with a very different motor (5035-380kv), with different gearing. The system worked fairly well in that application, but if you were to put 14S 5000mah batteries and a 5035 motor on the Logo 700, then you'd have essentially a Logo 800 all over again. We have also tried 13S 5000's on the standard combo that comes with the kit. If you TRULY only flew the heli at the same level of performance on 13S as you did with 12S, the 13S combo does hold head speed really well of course, and flights would be longer. But that doesn't happen! I'll say it again...that doesn't happen. With the added power in the batteries, you naturally pump harder, fly harder, faster, and push things more...because you can. Watts is watts, and what we found is when you (at least for Kyle anyways), push more watts through the stock system, it runs too hot (everything runs hotter), and flights times stay the same or even get shorter. In the end, it's not what we counted as a good balance in a power system (again, for Kyle). Operate a 13S power system on the stock equipment at a lower performance demand by the pilot, and the 13S system might be an overall improvement to that pilot. Nothing's the same for everyone, as we all fly differently. So I'm not syaing a 13S power system is bad, but there can be unintended consequences if you go crazy with the system, like.... Bump the head speed up to 2150+ with 13S, and the heli becomes a monster. But it runs WAY hotter, flight times get real short, and the combo is nothing we'd recommend (unless you're doing one of the videos where the pilots runs a totally unusable set-up with the heli just to make it look impressive in the vid, but no one in their right mind would run the set-up in the real world for any length of time...unless they just like burning things up and replacing stuff). Kyle refuses to produce those types of vids, and the vids you DO see of him are real world workable long term set-ups, that are a balance of performance, flight times, and long term preservation of equipment. In the end, the stock set-up is a great balance of what I call "overall performance". Nothing wrong with making changes to it though as suits each pilot's wants and desires. (-: Dave |
11-28-2012, 02:10 PM | #3 (permalink) | |
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Dave,
Quote:
This is what I appreciate the most out of your and Kyle's answers. I see lots of vids of insane head speed and the model in question being flown for about 2.5 minutes or under. People say, "WOW!" and I get thrown under bus for being a hater when I point out that is unrealistic unless your last name is Thor, Voltz or etc. Not to mention ESC hate it too. I would love to see the 700 tested with a motor like the new Pyro 800 as it is a lot bigger motor, but shorter can. It and a 14S 4200-4400 pack would be almost same exact weight as what we run now. IT should be a BIG power increase. Once again I'm not looking for higher head speed. I think 2050 RPM is good. I just like unbogable torque and if ran that way will be easier on packs yet again. I think a 723 or 726 Edge Blade be great. No bigger as you already proved that end. Norman Ross Jr.
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Norman Ross Jr. Mikado USA -- Insane Canopy -- Scorpion Motors |
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11-28-2012, 05:38 PM | #4 (permalink) |
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I agree with all that Dave and good discussion, I know you and Kyle have some pull and I am certain that a very slight larger chord in a blade 730mm max would be the ticket for 13 or 14S for sure, I feel it will be the ultimate equation honestly in disc load and power. I as well when doing comparisons go for exact headspeed as I will when I test 14S for sure, only way to know is to compare. I am looking to find out if I can maintain consistent power and feel for a given or improved flight time. I will need weather which is hard to get at moment. lol.
PLEASE use that stroke and see if we can get some larger blades out to try. hehehe
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...Once upon a time there were Nitros, flybars & frequency pins...Shawn |
11-28-2012, 07:21 PM | #5 (permalink) |
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I'm sure they would have to evaluate their return on investment. It cannot be cheap to produce a new size blade.
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11-28-2012, 08:15 PM | #6 (permalink) | |
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Quote:
Funkey is very efficient at this process really. Its the testing of weights and airfoil overall that is the time consumer, price wise I don't think it's a huge challenge.
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...Once upon a time there were Nitros, flybars & frequency pins...Shawn |
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11-28-2012, 09:32 PM | #7 (permalink) | |
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Quote:
If you want more power look at 850 but you have to rewind for correct kv, this is what im doing, pyro 850 on 14 s. Im not saying pyro 800 on 14 s wont be stronger than 4525 on 12 s, apples with apples though negligible. Just my opinion off course
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Tdr quantum 4530 1.4 yy h/ jive120 beastx, Vibe e 8 12s mx 700 1.32yy vbargov fusionhawk, Banshee nr 36 kosmik 200 pyro 800 1.4yy 455kv 14s beastx, xtreme 700 pyro 850 1.5yy 14s kosmik 200 |
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11-28-2012, 09:50 PM | #8 (permalink) |
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Stolla, I saw a video Timo W. posted to his YT account of the Pyro 800 on his stock L800. He changed nothing but motor. Nothing in the ESC either. All he had to do was change pole count in the Vgov. It was a considerable power increase in the video and he said it was too.
This is a 100% subjective thing and there is no data to back this up. This is why I mentioned trying it on a 700 which is 1.5lbs. lighter than 800 so it should be even more potent. Testing it is the only way to know if it will work, but as Eric mentioned paying for molds I have been told is not cheap for a given blade size. This may all be for naught. I LIKE the 4525. It is an EXCELLENT motor, but Shawn, me and guys like Stolla always wonder if there is a little bit more efficient or powerful setup within reach. I believe the 13S stuff worthless to try. Kyle put that one to rest. 14S only worth it it there is virtually no weight increase. That may or may not be possible. I really don't know... Guys are curious as this airframe does allow for a lot of experimentation. That is a great thing... Somebody with a thicker wallet than me going to have to do the testing though... lol Norman Ross Jr.
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Norman Ross Jr. Mikado USA -- Insane Canopy -- Scorpion Motors |
11-28-2012, 10:07 PM | #9 (permalink) |
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All these threads about running different motors and 13/14s setups have me worried Is the power/weight ratio a dissappointment to many? I am still waiting for readyheli to ship mine.
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11-28-2012, 10:09 PM | #10 (permalink) |
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NO!!!! It flies EXCELLENT with PLENTY of power one 4525 and 12S. Just the nature to wonder if there is any more.
Nothing wrong with it as is. NOTHING
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Norman Ross Jr. Mikado USA -- Insane Canopy -- Scorpion Motors |
11-28-2012, 10:23 PM | #11 (permalink) |
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My 700 will be ready to rock in a week or so.
Shawn, Ben and I will get together to gang bang it and take some notes on how well the setup works vs the standard 12s. Components: Pyro 800-48, 17 tooth pinion 14s 4400mah 65c gens ace packs Stock yge 160hv Edge 713 se mains I expect it'll have more percieved cowbell than the standard setup due to more gov headroom, and get roughly the same flight time due to efficiency increases. If flight time actually goes up as well, then it needs bigger blades ! We're doing the same thing basically that we did with the logo 600 when we pushed over to 12s from 10s, and 600mm mains to 620mm mains. Seems like just yesterday... |
11-28-2012, 10:57 PM | #12 (permalink) |
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I eagerly await the results.
See... I always liked the 600 better off of 10S 4400's as that was a perfect balance. I never liked the feeling of bigger blades. I'm afraid that what this going to turn into. A I Iike better than this, but I like better than this... If there is a definitive answer and it is much better I'll be all over it. I think 713 makes machine feel plenty light and I don't think we are getting bigger blades to test with at least not in next few days regardless. If it can pull same pitch for a given head speed with less bogging and longer flight times then that worth doing as long as feel of weight does not creep in. Good times...
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Norman Ross Jr. Mikado USA -- Insane Canopy -- Scorpion Motors |
11-29-2012, 12:30 AM | #13 (permalink) | |
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Quote:
Agree some of us have this mental issue, myself included. It is a disease really it's called "I need to know"
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...Once upon a time there were Nitros, flybars & frequency pins...Shawn |
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11-29-2012, 07:20 AM | #14 (permalink) | |
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Quote:
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Tdr quantum 4530 1.4 yy h/ jive120 beastx, Vibe e 8 12s mx 700 1.32yy vbargov fusionhawk, Banshee nr 36 kosmik 200 pyro 800 1.4yy 455kv 14s beastx, xtreme 700 pyro 850 1.5yy 14s kosmik 200 |
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11-29-2012, 07:36 AM | #15 (permalink) | |
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Quote:
I was running one of the first 12s/620mm setups with the logo 600, and was the first one in North America to stretch a logo 600 out to a 600 "se". I just like to try to optimize an already great heli for my own personal flying style. |
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