warp CG

[raptorheli2]

Originally Posted by helihaven

Every gram you can shed on that tail, is gonna be worth 4-5 grams in the nose...the problem is, it's already about as simple as a tail gets back there, not much of anything to lose, keeping the stock tail....

Couldn't agree more. If 10g can be knocked off back there it would be perfect, as you say though, how do you achieve it.

Cheers

[helihaven]

Only way I see is to lose the 500 sized tail mechanics...and go to a smaller 450 (3mm shaft) setup....there is just nothing to shave off of it as it is stock...Stevemech's stock tail unit weighed 42 grams...10 gram loss is what I am shooting for myself in his new tail.

[Luigi_tuga]

That's true, it's already a very light tail. Maybe i could make the tail case center a bit lighter, shave some unnecessary areas.
As it is there will be no scorpion motor for me, too heavy

[helihaven]

Yup...for a 500 sized (4mm based) tail...it's about as light as you can possibly get. There was a snowball effect by using it though...required a bigger pulley in the tail case..15 tooth minimum, just to have enough material around the shaft...which also required a bigger pulley up front to keep a ratio between the main and tail rotors between 4.5-4.8:1..more weight.....
Just the difference in weight between the tail rotor/pitch slider assembly, and a 450 sized assembly is your 10 grams.....shaft/pulley assembly is another large gain..probably 4-5 grams there....

[raptorheli2]

hopefully someone will make a bolt on tail system and knock some weight off.

it can't come quick enough.

cheers
paul

[Luigi_tuga]

Originally Posted by helihaven

Yup...for a 500 sized (4mm based) tail...it's about as light as you can possibly get. There was a snowball effect by using it though...required a bigger pulley in the tail case..15 tooth minimum, just to have enough material around the shaft...which also required a bigger pulley up front to keep a ratio between the main and tail rotors between 4.5-4.8:1..more weight.....
Just the difference in weight between the tail rotor/pitch slider assembly, and a 450 sized assembly is your 10 grams.....shaft/pulley assembly is another large gain..probably 4-5 grams there....

But i like this tail. For me it only needs a aluminium support part for the arm and a nice bolt with 2.5 mm to fit perfectly in the pitch slider arm bearings ( a 2.5 mm dril bit for example fits perfect).
I was doing very high speed wide funnels in moderate wind today, clockwise inverted tail down, that tail screaming like hell, never missed a bit.
Much better than a 450.

[Rob43]

I too have a couple of the Thor 35C 1350 packs. After checking with a couple of others earlier, they indicated that placing it fully forward against the canopy would balance the model. I think we other wise had comparible electronics. I found mine will balance with the battery as far forward as it can go. It's a little tricky to mount the canopy, but it goes on a balances pretty close to perfect. I then weighed the pack. For those of you interested, the Thor 35C pack weighs 225g on my scale, so it's one of the heavier packs in this class if you need it. I also believe a 1500 pack would be a little more ideal. I am glad I only ordered a couple of them for starting out.

I've had several experiences with my larger Compass FBL machines with varying pack weights. I have a Spyder 12S4000 for my 7HV. I have flown it with the position incorrect a couple of times. It's 300g lighter than my Gens Ace packs. It's considerably tail heavy if it's positioned as my Gens Ace packs. I didn't know I'd made the error until I removed the Spyder pack after flying. Couldn't tell the difference at all in flight. I realize a 5kg model is a different scale of model, but the principles are the same. I am not too concerned that this will be a significant issue for most of us flying our Warps. I wish there were some "forgiveness" built in to the battery location design, but such as it is, I am hopeful it won't be a problem.

[Bob O]

Having flown nitro for two full years, minor imbalances in CG don't bother me at all. With nitro, the first half of the flight the heli is tail heavy. The second half of the flight the heli is nose heavy. As you said Rob, I couldn't tell a difference in flight.

Sure I wish my battery sat in the middle of the tray so I could use both straps on it, but it doesn't. But when the canopy is on and my heli is flying, the furthest thing from my mind is the location of the battery.

[Stevemech]

Let's see, heavy battery, one strap and some 3d flights, what could go wrong?
Steve

[ScotY]

Solution...extend the front of the frames (probably only need 1/2" or so) so the battery can be mounted securely a little further forward, move canopy standoffs forward. This can't possibly add much weight and it's absolutely amazing that they didn't forsee this being an issue when all the test flight videos showed smallish packs mounted way up on the nose.

[heathy]

My packs are light at 210 grams and like raptor heli I have them as far forward as I dare go. 1 strap and a wide bit of Velcro on both pack and frame. I still needed a pound coin stuffed into the nose to get it right.

What's worse is the fact I purchased 4 of these in my excitement leading up to release.





As you can see any further forward will result in the strap not doing its job!

On a better note I did perform a 1200 % blurr piro with it like this and the battery didn't end up 2 miles away.

[raptorheli2]

i think i'll get some chrome/giant power packs when they come back into stock if anyone fancies trying to get a bulk deal for them to UK?

cheers

[Chris Nifty]

In an attempt to lighten the tail, what about ditching the 4 brass looking flat washers under the bolts holding the tail blades on? Are they really necessary?

[Luigi_tuga]

These are chinese weights, may test without them to find out.
One more (too) heavy detail: the 8 washers that clamp the boom block are wide and thick. I had some nice smaller ones from quickuk, much lighter and look better(black).

[ScotY]

Luigi, please bench test with and without the Chinese weights. I am skeptical if such small weights even do anything.

[Chris Nifty]

Spinning as fast as this tail does, I bet they do something.

[Stevemech]

Maybe lighter grips would be the ticket.The Blade 450x also uses a 4mm tail shaft and has a thrust washer aluminum grip in their upgrade section.Another helifreak member is sending me some so I will check fit and weight.
Steve

[helihaven]

It also uses a GT2 pulley...dunno the tooth count though....I'm pretty sure they have a metal version as well...

[Kendo]

In very, very round numbers, losing 1 gram off of the tail around the tail shaft equals about 4.5 grams at the very end of the electronics tray.

I don't know the distance from main shaft to the canopy's CG, but let's assume, just as an example, that its somewhere around the middle of the electronics tray. If you wanted to lighten the tail instead of moving it up 20 mm, you would have to lighten the tail by about 3 grams.

If you had a 220 gram lipo centered in the battery tray, moving it up 20 mm would be the same as lightening the tail by around 10 grams.

So no, removing the Chinese weights won't wont solve the CG issue.

Personally, I'd rather add a bit of weight to the tail in form of longer carbon sides to fit a spacer between them and use meatier bearings. And as someone else mentioned, solve the CG issue properly by extending the carbon frame sides to accommodate a proper place for the lipo, and move the canopy enough to fit it all.

[raptorheli2]

very interested in the blade upgrade, please keep us updated steve. i'm sure 10g can be knocked off out there with the right bits.

i guess this is the parts in question, are these 4mm?

http://www.wowhobbies.com/blh1670aal...ubforb450.aspx

and

http://www.wowhobbies.com/blh1669alu...etforb450.aspx

cheers