Kontonik PYRO-700 build thread

[HeliFX]

I'm start a new thread regarding the pyro-700 .

My understand regarding the pyro-700 that there are two fabrication version a earlier version which has shorter stator sheet count which I believe is the blue laminate and the newer which has larger sheet count (blk)

Why is the difference important ?

What is advantage and disadvantage between the two in respect rewinding and performance ?

How to do determine which version I currently have ?

thanks

[Stolla]

you have to count the stators plates, I was lucky my old one had more plates than spec, can't remember the count though. Easiest way to count is to take a close up pic of the stator then count on the picture. Difference is important for kv and torque, more plates lower kv, more torque and power, think 4025 vs 4035 although extreme example you get the idea. There is some rewinding data somewhere on Ralph's sites.
It's a nice motor to rewind as assembly is very easy, 1.32 wire in yy is what you should aim for if you want kv in the 520 range, power increase is considerable, I logged over 8 kw just in pitch pumps with very little decay on headspeed which is the real measure of power.
Pyro had one problem which it's why I prefer the mx for rewinding, the 6 mm. shaft, you absolutely have to run counterbearing, you can modify for 8 mm shaft if you have the equipment, this is also shown on R site.
Some pics of my pyro in 1.32 here, the top 2 lines https://www.helifreak.com/attachment...7&d=1328679757 bottom is 4035 mk3 in 1.32

[HeliFX]

good point I'll be sure do that. I have yet to open the Pyro but from all accounts sure is hell of a lot easier then a scorpion.

Have you tried replicating the spec from the Black edition ?

I believe the laminate on my is black so I suspect its the newer one. I do recall reading something about 167 sheet count. Not sure.

my preliminary calculation work out to
6+6X1.32 YY 530 range Kv

I may attempt a 1.4 mm on this motor.

Yes I do realize the motor will be a beast

Speaking of motors apart from the Pyro which motor is consider a favorite among the die hard experience winding guru's ?
In other words which makes the top of list ?

Originally Posted by Stolla

you have to count the stators plates, I was lucky my old one had more plates than spec, can't remember the count though. Easiest way to count is to take a close up pic of the stator then count on the picture. Difference is important for kv and torque, more plates lower kv, more torque and power, think 4025 vs 4035 although extreme example you get the idea. There is some rewinding data somewhere on Ralph's sites.
It's a nice motor to rewind as assembly is very easy, 1.32 wire in yy is what you should aim for if you want kv in the 520 range, power increase is considerable, I logged over 8 kw just in pitch pumps with very little decay on headspeed which is the real measure of power.
Pyro had one problem which it's why I prefer the mx for rewinding, the 6 mm. shaft, you absolutely have to run counterbearing, you can modify for 8 mm shaft if you have the equipment, this is also shown on R site.
Some pics of my pyro in 1.32 here, the top 2 lines https://www.helifreak.com/attachment...7&d=1328679757 bottom is 4035 mk3 in 1.32

[GMAURO]

I agree with stolla.
The pyro is a beatiful motor to rewind and power gain is very big with 1.32 / 1.4 mm wire.
Personally i've builded some pyro with 1.4 mm D winded like black edition, or 1.32 mm YY, for my opinion this last is better than 1.4D. More tourque.
This motor have a good stator, good efficency and the best integrated fan that i've see, able to force a good airflow into the stator.
Your calculation for 6+6 YY with 530 Kv is right! All my pyro 6+6 YY give 535 Kv, tested at 15° fixtiming.

[GMAURO]

https://www.helifreak.com/showthread...=382481&page=2

At this link you found some winding that i've made in pyro motor, and measured tested Kv

[Stolla]

I'm not a die hard by any means but due to its bargain price and genes, not to mention powder coated stator, mx motor must rate as my favourite. Runs cool, great power, easy to rewind and inexpensive.If you talk about raw power the big scorpion motors will obviously take the price 4535 and up, but i havnt done these yet, cant wait though, first the banshee must arrive though

[HeliFX]

thanks GMAURO,

I'll be sure to check them out.

Has anyone attempted to replacing the shaft with a bigger one on the Pyro's ?

Originally Posted by GMAURO

https://www.helifreak.com/showthread...=382481&page=2

At this link you found some winding that i've made in pyro motor, and measured tested Kv

[HeliFX]

Stolla,

I must agree with you regarding the MX with all those very reason you mentioned.
Its price point and bare bone guts makes it an attractive motor for rewinding.

Ah the banshee, sweet machine.

I wonder if belt driven motor holds better with these power horse motors.

Can't imagine stick them in a mikado logo with those side frame flexing like mad and stripping gears every flight I bet.

Originally Posted by Stolla

I'm not a die hard by any means but due to its bargain price and genes, not to mention powder coated stator, mx motor must rate as my favourite. Runs cool, great power, easy to rewind and inexpensive.If you talk about raw power the big scorpion motors will obviously take the price 4535 and up, but i havnt done these yet, cant wait though, first the banshee must arrive though

[_Dekker]

Originally Posted by HeliFX

I'm start a new thread regarding the pyro-700 .

My understand regarding the pyro-700 that there are two fabrication version a earlier version which has shorter stator sheet count which I believe is the blue laminate and the newer which has larger sheet count (blk)

Why is the difference important ?

What is advantage and disadvantage between the two in respect rewinding and performance ?

How to do determine which version I currently have ?

thanks

Yes blue is the older version and black is the newer one. Advantage of blue is that the thickness of the epoxy coating is a bit less, so you can get more copper in. But in the blue line there have been some bad stators with few laminations, so you have to count them. I do not remember what a good number was, I am sure Ralph can tell. The advantage of more laminations is that you might be able to drop a winding to get the same n spec compared to a motor with fewer stator laminations.
Also the black version has a bit larger bearings, making it a little bit more robust.
The pyro is the easiest motor to rewind because of the simple assembly. It was my first project (a black one) and I enjoyed that a lot.

Bert

[powercroco]

150 statorplates are good, less is bad, more better!
some windings:
www.tuning.powerditto.de/powerpyro.html

[HeliFX]

if less the 150 meaning bad does that imply don't bother rewinding will not produce good results

Apart from counting each sheet I would image there is a difference in height between the good and bad.

Is there a value that correlates to 150 sheets and up to verify

Originally Posted by powercroco

150 statorplates are good, less is bad, more better!
some windings:
www.tuning.powerditto.de/powerpyro.html

[ZuvieleTeile]

In general they are using 0.2 mm plates.
So, in a 30 mm stator, there should be around 150.
I could imagine a motor with less than 150 has either thicker plates (bad) or they used too much glue in between and the stator would get too long and they just just left some plates off in order to get to the desired 30 mm in this case.
But I wouldn't say it is not worth rewinding. It is just not as good as others.

[HeliFX]

well I'm assuming the worse case cause I have yet to open and check my pyro 700 but I suspect its the newer one. fingers crossed.

gee seems like Pyro of all the motors is the least painful to rewind then say scorpion 4025.

I might try flat wire for this motor
it be interesting to compare how wrapping 10P compares to a 8P.

hey ZuvieleTeile hope your wires arrive safely

Originally Posted by ZuvieleTeile

In general they are using 0.2 mm plates.
So, in a 30 mm stator, there should be around 150.
I could imagine a motor with less than 150 has either thicker plates (bad) or they used too much glue in between and the stator would get too long and they just just left some plates off in order to get to the desired 30 mm in this case.
But I wouldn't say it is not worth rewinding. It is just not as good as others.

[Stolla]

Less than 150 , the gurus reckon not worth rewinding, mine was old one, got it just after the previous gen and it was good so chances yours are good as well.
4025 is easier because it's 8 pole, with 10 pole you have to thread back which can damage wire and coating, id recommend some practice before doing the pyro, yes it's easier but only because of the powder coating, mx motor is actually easier, more space and also a lot cheaper for practice

[HeliFX]

Point taken.
I think 700mx maybe first to take my abuse before messing with the Almighty Pyro

Originally Posted by Stolla

Less than 150 , the gurus reckon not worth rewinding, mine was old one, got it just after the previous gen and it was good so chances yours are good as well.
4025 is easier because it's 8 pole, with 10 pole you have to thread back which can damage wire and coating, id recommend some practice before doing the pyro, yes it's easier but only because of the powder coating, mx motor is actually easier, more space and also a lot cheaper for practice

[HeliFX]

well since I started this post thought I share some photos.
PYRO 700 -52 rewind at
5 + 5 @1,5mm YY n/spec 560 -580 (depending on timing and ESC)

more too come - PYRO 700 - 1,25 & 1,32 ( 450 & 535 Kv)

[GimpyGolden]

Lookin good Ralph.
Let me know when your ready for a couple more Pyro's, could send you my 600 and 700 soon.

[HeliFX]

I was planning to contact you this coming week
Figured you where trying to squeeze in few more days of flying as I am before the cold
really sets in.

Looks like tomorrow maybe good weather wise.

I reach out too you this coming week.

cheers

[HeliFX]

Another PYRO-700
5+5+2+1(zig-zag) = 6+7@1,25 YY n/spec 512
timing: 15 degrees
copper % = 15.95 mm^2
total wire (L) = 300" 6 strands at (50")

winding type "BLUE" method

[Stolla]

When you do zig zag the red scheme works very well as very easy to add the zig.z.. And it pins the wires inside. Reason i prfer the red is it doesnt harden the wire as Dekker mentioned when you pull it through he loop, espescially with thick wire it stays softer, i find with my last motor on 1.8 was not anymore difficult than much thinner wire, sure a lot depends on motor off course but cant see myself going back to the blue scheme really.
For the pyro anything more than 1.32 is a waste imop, its just not strong enough construction. For this reason im not pursuing them as an option anymore, but if you have one a 1.32 yy makes good horses