Anyone else having binding issues?

[Mega Stumbler]

I would like to get to the bottom of this failure to bind problem. I would love to get my hands on some of these bad boards.

Does anyone have a board that has been replaced that they are willing to give up for research? I am willing to cover shipping costs + a little more to be able to dig into a few.

Once I get a few and find the causes I will post pictures of the signals from my oscilloscope and any defects found under microscope for all to see and learn from.

[beer-man]

Mine started having issues last night, I can push on the board and it will link up and then in and out as I press on the corner of the board. Just call HH and they said I'll have to send it in. That they want to see it and they don't send out boards.

[coredump]

Been there done that.

For the one that do not bind after crash. I am pretty sure it is just the receiver
chip separate from the PCB. You can typically find some cracks on the conformal
coating.

For some 130x boards, I do see some do not bind problem I suspect is the
bad soldering. There is no sign of crack any where even under the microscope.
However, the problem can be fix by removing the receiver chip and resolder it
back on. Reflowing the receive chip without taking if off does not fix the problem
for me. There is my thread of investigating this kind of not crash related binding
problems.

https://www.helifreak.com/showthread.php?t=441476

Since then, take off the receiver chip and resoldering it is the last resort for me
to rescue the do not bind boards.

In the oscilloscope does not help much on those do not bind receivers. Basically
there is nothing on the SPI bus to look at. My oscilloscope (500Mhz) does not go
high enough to look at the raw 2.4G RF signal. Not sure what else can be look at.
The crystal and clock signal (12M) are all good. The binding behavior is all inside
the receiver chip.

I have yet to see a receiver chip itself went bad. It seems all soldering related.

Originally Posted by Mega Stumbler

I would like to get to the bottom of this failure to bind problem. I would love to get my hands on some of these bad boards.

Does anyone have a board that has been replaced that they are willing to give up for research? I am willing to cover shipping costs + a little more to be able to dig into a few.

Once I get a few and find the causes I will post pictures of the signals from my oscilloscope and any defects found under microscope for all to see and learn from.

[4n6days]

I've noticed taht on my DX6i, that sometimes it won't bind if the TH switch is on. Most of the time it will, but the times that it just blinks.. If I unplug the heli and plug it back in with no tx change, it still blinks, but if I turn the TH off and put the throttle stick all the way down, it will bind.

Admittedly, it doesn't make sense. 0% throttle should be the same whether it's TH induced or lowered throttle stick... but something to try anyway....

[Coco66]

Originally Posted by bdtrauma

same problem here. lots of crashes... but after the last one the nano was just blinking. Have tried everything I can think of to rebind and still no luck Dx8.

Also check if the red antenna is still connected to the board.

Originally Posted by 4n6days

I've noticed taht on my DX6i, that sometimes it won't bind if the TH switch is on. Most of the time it will, but the times that it just blinks.. If I unplug the heli and plug it back in with no tx change, it still blinks, but if I turn the TH off and put the throttle stick all the way down, it will bind.

Admittedly, it doesn't make sense. 0% throttle should be the same whether it's TH induced or lowered throttle stick... but something to try anyway....

I think we should talk clearer: "binding" is the operation you do when you first power on the heli then you power on the TX while holding the trainer switch and so on. This operation of course cannot be done In TH since the DX6i refuses to turn on with TH on.

The other operation, which you do every time you change battery, it's not called "binding". Honestly I don't know how it's called ("connecting to the TX"?) but if it does not work we should not say "the heli does not bind". It's not a correct description of the symptom. Agree?

If I remember correctly, the heli will refuse to connect if he sees the throttle stick not at the lowest position, regardless of TH. They use two different channels, I assume.

[Mega Stumbler]

Originally Posted by Coco66

Also check if the red antenna is still connected to the board.



I think we should talk clearer: "binding" is the operation you do when you first power on the heli then you power on the TX while holding the trainer switch and so on. This operation of course cannot be done In TH since the DX6i refuses to turn on with TH on.

The other operation, which you do every time you change battery, it's not called "binding". Honestly I don't know how it's called ("connecting to the TX"?) but if it does not work we should not say "the heli does not bind". It's not a correct description of the symptom. Agree?

If I remember correctly, the heli will refuse to connect if he sees the throttle stick not at the lowest position, regardless of TH. They use two different channels, I assume.

The process of normal startup is called initializing. However, I don't think a distinction needs to be made by people on the forum. Saying it won't bind means it will not communicate properly with the TX to almost every user. Think about rewinding a CD, DVD, or mp3. Using the term rewinding is the incorrect term because you are not rewinding anything like you are with a tape. But everyone still knows what it means. There is no need to change the terms used when the current term are not confusing.

Also, saying the board will not bind makes since because the user is describing the symptom. The board indicates it is in bind mode and fails to bind. Most people list symptoms looking for help finding the cause. If they knew exactly what was wrong or the cause they would not be making the post. Do you expect people with tail motors that run when the battery is plugged in to say they have a resistive short in their tail FET?


Sent using Tapatalk. Please forgive/ignore autocorrect errors.

[4n6days]

Yes. I see that I had my terminology wrong. In my previous post, everywhere I said bind what I meant was connect. Heli is already bound previously, but when powering on the heli the light flashes. It sometimes doesn't connect.

Mostly in my case, its usually an issue of the heli not seeing 0 throttle.

Thanks for the correcting me. I've always referred to the initial bind and the connection when initializing as 'binding.' Never really thought about how confusing not making that distinction makes a thread like this.

[eric5989]

I'm having the same problem, I'll have to go through the process of holding the trainer switch and turning on the transmitter to bind it, in about 1 of 3 packs. It's not a huge deal. Its my first CP and I absolutely love it.

[Tecpro]

Originally Posted by 4n6days

Yes. I see that I had my terminology wrong. In my previous post, everywhere I said bind what I meant was connect. Heli is already bound previously, but when powering on the heli the light flashes. It sometimes doesn't connect.

Mostly in my case, its usually an issue of the heli not seeing 0 throttle.

Thanks for the correcting me. I've always referred to the initial bind and the connection when initializing as 'binding.' Never really thought about how confusing not making that distinction makes a thread like this.

Is your pitch curve set at 0 at throttle down in the TX Settings. Or would that have anything to do with it seeing the Throttle? Just wondering for future reference.

[Coco66]

Originally Posted by Mega Stumbler

The process of normal startup is called initializing. However, I don't think a distinction needs to be made by people on the forum. Saying it won't bind means it will not communicate properly with the TX to almost every user. Think about rewinding a CD, DVD, or mp3. Using the term rewinding is the incorrect term because you are not rewinding anything like you are with a tape. But everyone still knows what it means. There is no need to change the terms used when the current term are not confusing.

Also, saying the board will not bind makes since because the user is describing the symptom. The board indicates it is in bind mode and fails to bind. Most people list symptoms looking for help finding the cause. If they knew exactly what was wrong or the cause they would not be making the post. Do you expect people with tail motors that run when the battery is plugged in to say they have a resistive short in their tail FET?

Mega Stumbler, I have no right to talk since I know you have a terrific knowledge and experience and I'm a noob (and a non-native speaker) so don't get me wrong.

But I still think that
- the process of binding does not work, the TX and the RX do not get bound
and
- the initialization procedure does not work, but then a new binding works, and it "gets lost" again later
are two very different symptoms.

[mixfisto]

I don't have much to contribute in the way of a solution (sorry), but I just wanted to add that I too am having sporadic binding problems...

Grateful for those in the troubleshooting business

[Mega Stumbler]

Originally Posted by Coco66

Mega Stumbler, I have no right to talk since I know you have a terrific knowledge and experience and I'm a noob (and a non-native speaker) so don't get me wrong.

But I still think that
- the process of binding does not work, the TX and the RX do not get bound
and
- the initialization procedure does not work, but then a new binding works, and it "gets lost" again later
are two very different symptoms.

You always have a right to talk. Just sharing my thoughts.


Sent using Tapatalk. Please forgive/ignore autocorrect errors.

[Tecpro]

I don't know if this will help anyone but I ran across it while reading up on my AR6110e. A Brownout can cause the loss of connection and then reconnect in about 1 sec. after it gets current back to the receiver. Causes of brownouts can be numerous and as simple as a low battery, bad cell in battery, loose wire, loose connector, bad pr weak ESC if the receiver is powered off the ESC and even having an amplified Y yoke. I don't know what they are meaning by Y Yoke except that is a booster cable between componets that are distant from each other. Most Receiver's require 3.5V to operate. Once the voltage drops below the 3.5V it causes a brownout which causes a loss of connection, then when the voltage comes back up to 3.5V in some cases, then it will reconnect in 1 sec.

Here is what it said about having to rebind, or loosing your bind. This is in the Binding an Ar6110 . I'll just cut and past the part I read that might be of use.

5. Remove the bind plug from the BATT/BIND port on the receiver before you power off the transmitter and store it in a convenient place.
6. After you’ve set up your model, it’s important to rebind the system so the true low throttle and neutral control surface positions are set.

I'm not a know it all, I was just reading about binding and some of the problems that can cause failure.
Don't know it that helps anyone at all, but it might!
Thanks for letting me spout off.

[andersn]

I got same issues with jr 11x
I have to rebind for 70% of my flights aprox

same identical issues with my 130x, but my mcpx always binds fine.

[coredump]

Yup, I recently take a look at two nano cpx board that confirm it is crashing
causing the binding problem. Receiver chip slightly separate from the board.
There are cracks show on the conformal coating around the receiver chip.

Under 10x microscope, see the crack on the lower right of the chip?



Under 50x for a better look of the cracks.



The good news is, reflow the receiver chip usually works very well for this
kind of the cracking problem. It is pretty much the same deal as mcpx.

[Tecpro]

Too bad you can't put a mini heat-sink and fan on that chip. THAT chip looks like it got pretty over heated causing that problem. if it does it on a large heli I would say take a tail motor off a msr and mount inside to keep the heat down.
But again, that's just me!

[Varc]

Not exactly a binding issue I think, but I do have to unplug and plug back on a few times before it'll initialize.

[Mega Stumbler]

Originally Posted by coredump

Yup, I recently take a look at two nano cpx board that confirm it is crashing
causing the binding problem. Receiver chip slightly separate from the board.
There are cracks show on the conformal coating around the receiver chip.

Under 10x microscope, see the crack on the lower right of the chip?



Under 50x for a better look of the cracks.



The good news is, reflow the receiver chip usually works very well for this
kind of the cracking problem. It is pretty much the same deal as mcpx.

Same thing happens with the msr all the time. Defiantly an excessive force issue causing board flex.


Sent using Tapatalk. Please forgive/ignore autocorrect errors.

[coredump]

Yap, I saw that happen on msr(x) too. Much much on 130x though, because
130x boards are better protected in the frame.

Originally Posted by Mega Stumbler

Same thing happens with the msr all the time. Defiantly an excessive force issue causing board flex.

[coredump]

For the receiver in the 130x, mcpx, msrx, nano cpx and mqx. They all use 2.7V
on the receiver chip. The receiver chip can operate as low as 1.8V per datasheet.
I think HH pick 2.7v is exactly try to prevent low voltage cause the receiver malfunction.

Originally Posted by Tecpro

I don't know if this will help anyone but I ran across it while reading up on my AR6110e. A Brownout can cause the loss of connection and then reconnect in about 1 sec. after it gets current back to the receiver. Causes of brownouts can be numerous and as simple as a low battery, bad cell in battery, loose wire, loose connector, bad pr weak ESC if the receiver is powered off the ESC and even having an amplified Y yoke. I don't know what they are meaning by Y Yoke except that is a booster cable between componets that are distant from each other. Most Receiver's require 3.5V to operate. Once the voltage drops below the 3.5V it causes a brownout which causes a loss of connection, then when the voltage comes back up to 3.5V in some cases, then it will reconnect in 1 sec.