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Stenz28 · 12-16-2009, 12:24 AM

Hi all,

I bought this set from wowhobbies: http://www.wowhobbies.com/tailholder...1-1-1-2-1.aspx

I received the set and installed/soldered in the two motors. The main motor only spins if it isn't hooked up to the main gear. The tail motor just makes a buzziing noise and vibrates/twitches a little (this is what the main motor does if it doesn't spin). I can get the main to spin if I physically spin the main gear, but when you stop, it won't re-spin. The tail motor can be turned but never spins up. When I put in the tail motor the motor's wires didn't seem to be insulated and I removed an additional centimeter of the wrap to make sure. It was a real pain to solder a 1mm wire! Much harder to install than the MSR's tail! (Just an observation)

I have the esc's hooked up exactly as in the photo/directions.
The battery (400mah) hooked to the included "y" cable: One end to the tail esc which has a single wire connector for the RX. One end to the main esc with its normal hookup to the RX.

Any help you can give would be appreciated. Thanks.

Garry123 · 12-16-2009, 06:39 AM

I cannot provide a definite solution for your problem but try the settings on the pdf in the link below:

http://www.walkera.com/en1/info.jsp?id=95

The heli may need fine tuning as you have a new brushless setup. Worth a try.

Another thought with the tail motor is make sure it spins freely when you blow on it. I assume the motor is glued in to place, you may have accidently glued the bearing.

Ampdraw · 12-17-2009, 05:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stenz28

Hi all,

I bought this set from wowhobbies: http://www.wowhobbies.com/tailholder...1-1-1-2-1.aspx

I received the set and installed/soldered in the two motors. The main motor only spins if it isn't hooked up to the main gear. The tail motor just makes a buzziing noise and vibrates/twitches a little (this is what the main motor does if it doesn't spin). I can get the main to spin if I physically spin the main gear, but when you stop, it won't re-spin. The tail motor can be turned but never spins up. When I put in the tail motor the motor's wires didn't seem to be insulated and I removed an additional centimeter of the wrap to make sure. It was a real pain to solder a 1mm wire! Much harder to install than the MSR's tail! (Just an observation)

I have the esc's hooked up exactly as in the photo/directions.
The battery (400mah) hooked to the included "y" cable: One end to the tail esc which has a single wire connector for the RX. One end to the main esc with its normal hookup to the RX.

Any help you can give would be appreciated. Thanks.

If you direct soldered the two motors I would suggest you go over those connections. These motors have wire with an enamel coating that has to be scraped off with an exacto knife for a good solder joint. Also the power from a good lipo (20C necessary) must go straight to both esc's for them to get anough amps to start the motors.

Amp

Stenz28 · 12-17-2009, 05:58 PM

Thanks guys.

I'll check the solder/re-solder the connections and try again. Real pain in the butt to just TRY to get this thing to fly. If I wasn't all messed up I would gladly stay with my outside 450 class and throw this thing in the dumpster, all $200 worth and all!

Ampdraw · 12-17-2009, 09:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stenz28

Thanks guys.

I'll check the solder/re-solder the connections and try again. Real pain in the butt to just TRY to get this thing to fly. If I wasn't all messed up I would gladly stay with my outside 450 class and throw this thing in the dumpster, all $200 worth and all!

Which dumpster??

They are great when you get them all dialled in. Believe I thought my experience setting up and flying mild 3d on my Gaui 200 would translate to these little guys.
Not so...kinda have to learn their traits and accuracy in setup which was super frustrating.
Let us know how you go.

Amp

Stenz28 · 12-23-2009, 05:24 PM

Since I crashed my B400 I had time to work on this problem last night.

Wowhobbies.com said that I was to make sure the main motor was soldered directly to the ESC.

So, I removed the wires and soldered the 81220 directly to the ESC. I the used a dremel to make the body mounting holes a little longer so the pinion wouldn't bind on the drive wheel.

When I was trying to check the tail motor, two of the wires broke and then the black shrink wrap came off and I ended up soldering very close to the motor. And one of the screws on the little tail holder broke off when I tried to remove it.

The 81220 will buzz and will not turn without manually spinning the blade. Then it will run but if you shut down it will not restart without recycling the ESC. The tail motor ran for less than 1 minute before it quit completely. I even tried removing the "Y" cable and gave each ESC it's own battery to no effect.

Now instead of having a 4G3 that flys poorly, I have one that does not fly at all.

Any suggestions?

Sten

MCX; MSR; CX3; 4G3; Blade 400; Gaui 550

Dusty1000 · 12-24-2009, 04:53 PM

I understand that if you snap the wires on the motor then you have to rewind it.

Dusty

adavis · 05-21-2010, 04:09 AM

I also have one of these Wowhobbies brushless conversion kits for my 4G3. What gives? The 2.9g brushless tail works GREAT, but the main rotor blades barely turn - if at all.

Does the transmitter need to be readjusted for a different motor?

Any of you had success with this new 81220 motor?

Dusty1000 · 05-21-2010, 05:16 AM

What sort of motor is the one that doesn't work? Just in case it's a starting problem, try spinning the blades by hand and then apply throttle while they are turning.

The transmitter shouldn't need adjusted for a different motor, did you get a new esc as well?

Dusty

adavis · 05-21-2010, 01:52 PM

The motor is the 81220 Turbo Ace, from Wowhobbies.com

http://www.wowhobbies.com/turboace81...ra4g6-1-1.aspx

The main motor will not spin unless I spin it by hand. It's a very "tight" motor, as in it has very definite "bumps" as I spin the motor. I assume that is normal, because when the motor does spin at regular speed, it spins effortlessly.

From reading, I may need to set my transmitter again. I have not changed the ESC from stock, but from reading I should not have to with the 4G3. The website says the ESC from the 4#3B or CB100 works better than the ESC with the 4G6, but whether that applies to the 4G3 I don't know.

Dusty1000 · 05-21-2010, 11:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by adavis

when the motor does spin at regular speed, it spins effortlessly.

So what did you do to get it to spin at regular speed? Or did it work ok when you first got it and now it doesn't?

What did you read about setting up the transmitter again? There are no settings that would make a difference as to whether the motor spins or not, except the throttle trim tab which should always be at the bottom of the slider.

Dusty

adavis · 05-22-2010, 01:45 AM

I emailed Wowhobbies and they replied that I should send them the motor and ESC - sometimes the ESC timing can be off and it'll throw the whole thing off. They also say that [if I can] spin the motor at full speed to run it through two battery charges or so to correct the tightness in the pinion/main gear mating surfaces. Lo and behold today after my third battery it begins spinning on its own. I'm now recharging the battery and will let it run again to see if it helps the "cogging" as they call it. Basically the new pinion binds against the main gear more than normal. Running it at speed helps seat the new gears, I assume, which makes sense.

But yeah, if I hand start the main rotor and ease into the throttle so as to not overload the ESC, I can get it to run full speed. Just ease the power on until it's about half stick, then switch to 3D flight mode and let her just spin.

I still have ESC issues, I know. If I overload the collective the ESC will stall and stop power to the main motor. Requires full throttle down and rest for a few seconds. If the main rotor is still spinning at that point I can ease it back into full speed - otherwise I have to hand start it again.

Frustrating.

Dusty1000 · 05-22-2010, 01:58 AM

Mesh between gear and pinion should always be loose on these helis, much looser than you would have it on a bigger heli. I always set mine as loose as I can get it without risking teeth skipping, the gears still last for ages as there isn't enough power to strip them in a crash. If the mesh is too tight, that saps too much of what little power these motors make and can lead to overheating etc.

I would definitely back the motor away from the gear as much as possible, I'm sure you'll find it will run a lot better

Dusty

adavis · 05-22-2010, 02:40 PM

The pinion gear is as far away from the main gear as I could get it. I guess I could try to ream out a little more room, but I don't want to go too far and risk damage to structural strength.

Definitely advice I will put to practice, though. Thanks.

wschart · 05-24-2010, 10:39 AM

Well, my problem is the opposite - the main goes fine, but the tail has been problematic ever since I installed the brushless upgrade. Some of the problems were solved when I got the rotor setup dialed in and new blades, apparently vibrations were causing the gyro to cut out. While I was doing all this, I was test flying without the canopy and just letting all the wiring hand loose. But the tail was still "cogging" and I had to put on a little throttle and flip the tail rotor by hand to get it going. I could live with that while hoping that perhaps it would break in eventually. Anyway, once I got it flying well I put a rubber band around the wiring to hold it in and put the canopy back on. The tail rotor wouldn't work at all. So I took the canopy and band back off, and kind of looked around and wiggling various wiring to see if anything was loose. I succeeded in getting the tail working again, but I couldn't say exactly what did it. So I perhaps foolishly put the rubber band and canopy back on and the tail is now dead. I redid the soldering of the lead from the ESC to the motor and as far as I can tell, they are well soldered. I switched the 2 branches of the Y cable, since I knew the one branch was good, but that experiment indicated that actually both branches were good. I hooked my originally brushed motor back up and that didn't work either, although it was working fine when I made the upgrade. So right now I am sort of guessing that something got messed up in the RX when I used to rubber band to attach things. Is that possible? Everything else works fine. So maybe I'm looking at getting a new RX.

wschart · 05-29-2010, 07:50 PM

Well, it seems that I am back in business to some extent now. After letting the copter alone for a couple of days, I tried things again and the tail is back to more or less working. Still have to give it a flip to get it to run.

It seems that it is very sensitive to vibration: if there is any, apparently the giro cuts out. But I think I have that pretty well under control.

12-16-2009, 12:24 AM	#1 (permalink)
Stenz28 Registered Users My HF Map location Join Date: Oct 2009	More problems with new brushless setup Hi all, I bought this set from wowhobbies: http://www.wowhobbies.com/tailholder...1-1-1-2-1.aspx I received the set and installed/soldered in the two motors. The main motor only spins if it isn't hooked up to the main gear. The tail motor just makes a buzziing noise and vibrates/twitches a little (this is what the main motor does if it doesn't spin). I can get the main to spin if I physically spin the main gear, but when you stop, it won't re-spin. The tail motor can be turned but never spins up. When I put in the tail motor the motor's wires didn't seem to be insulated and I removed an additional centimeter of the wrap to make sure. It was a real pain to solder a 1mm wire! Much harder to install than the MSR's tail! (Just an observation) I have the esc's hooked up exactly as in the photo/directions. The battery (400mah) hooked to the included "y" cable: One end to the tail esc which has a single wire connector for the RX. One end to the main esc with its normal hookup to the RX. Any help you can give would be appreciated. Thanks. Attached Thumbnails

12-24-2009, 04:53 PM	#7 (permalink)
Dusty1000 Registered Users Join Date: Sep 2008	I understand that if you snap the wires on the motor then you have to rewind it. Dusty __________________ Blade 400, mSR, mCPX - Sonix SX450SE - Walkera 1#A, 4#3, 4#3A, 4#3B, 4G3

05-21-2010, 05:16 AM	#9 (permalink)
Dusty1000 Registered Users Join Date: Sep 2008	What sort of motor is the one that doesn't work? Just in case it's a starting problem, try spinning the blades by hand and then apply throttle while they are turning. The transmitter shouldn't need adjusted for a different motor, did you get a new esc as well? Dusty __________________ Blade 400, mSR, mCPX - Sonix SX450SE - Walkera 1#A, 4#3, 4#3A, 4#3B, 4G3

05-22-2010, 01:58 AM	#13 (permalink)
Dusty1000 Registered Users Join Date: Sep 2008	Mesh between gear and pinion should always be loose on these helis, much looser than you would have it on a bigger heli. I always set mine as loose as I can get it without risking teeth skipping, the gears still last for ages as there isn't enough power to strip them in a crash. If the mesh is too tight, that saps too much of what little power these motors make and can lead to overheating etc. I would definitely back the motor away from the gear as much as possible, I'm sure you'll find it will run a lot better Dusty __________________ Blade 400, mSR, mCPX - Sonix SX450SE - Walkera 1#A, 4#3, 4#3A, 4#3B, 4G3

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12-16-2009, 06:39 AM	#2 (permalink)
Garry123 Registered Users Join Date: Aug 2009	I cannot provide a definite solution for your problem but try the settings on the pdf in the link below: http://www.walkera.com/en1/info.jsp?id=95 The heli may need fine tuning as you have a new brushless setup. Worth a try. Another thought with the tail motor is make sure it spins freely when you blow on it. I assume the motor is glued in to place, you may have accidently glued the bearing.

12-17-2009, 05:58 PM	#4 (permalink)
Stenz28 Registered Users Thread Starter My HF Map location Join Date: Oct 2009	Thanks guys. I'll check the solder/re-solder the connections and try again. Real pain in the butt to just TRY to get this thing to fly. If I wasn't all messed up I would gladly stay with my outside 450 class and throw this thing in the dumpster, all $200 worth and all!

12-23-2009, 05:24 PM	#6 (permalink)
Stenz28 Registered Users Thread Starter My HF Map location Join Date: Oct 2009	Since I crashed my B400 I had time to work on this problem last night. Wowhobbies.com said that I was to make sure the main motor was soldered directly to the ESC. So, I removed the wires and soldered the 81220 directly to the ESC. I the used a dremel to make the body mounting holes a little longer so the pinion wouldn't bind on the drive wheel. When I was trying to check the tail motor, two of the wires broke and then the black shrink wrap came off and I ended up soldering very close to the motor. And one of the screws on the little tail holder broke off when I tried to remove it. The 81220 will buzz and will not turn without manually spinning the blade. Then it will run but if you shut down it will not restart without recycling the ESC. The tail motor ran for less than 1 minute before it quit completely. I even tried removing the "Y" cable and gave each ESC it's own battery to no effect. Now instead of having a 4G3 that flys poorly, I have one that does not fly at all. Any suggestions? Sten MCX; MSR; CX3; 4G3; Blade 400; Gaui 550

05-21-2010, 04:09 AM	#8 (permalink)
adavis Registered Users Join Date: May 2010	I also have one of these Wowhobbies brushless conversion kits for my 4G3. What gives? The 2.9g brushless tail works GREAT, but the main rotor blades barely turn - if at all. Does the transmitter need to be readjusted for a different motor? Any of you had success with this new 81220 motor?

05-21-2010, 01:52 PM	#10 (permalink)
adavis Registered Users Join Date: May 2010	The motor is the 81220 Turbo Ace, from Wowhobbies.com http://www.wowhobbies.com/turboace81...ra4g6-1-1.aspx The main motor will not spin unless I spin it by hand. It's a very "tight" motor, as in it has very definite "bumps" as I spin the motor. I assume that is normal, because when the motor does spin at regular speed, it spins effortlessly. From reading, I may need to set my transmitter again. I have not changed the ESC from stock, but from reading I should not have to with the 4G3. The website says the ESC from the 4#3B or CB100 works better than the ESC with the 4G6, but whether that applies to the 4G3 I don't know.

05-22-2010, 01:45 AM	#12 (permalink)
adavis Registered Users Join Date: May 2010	I emailed Wowhobbies and they replied that I should send them the motor and ESC - sometimes the ESC timing can be off and it'll throw the whole thing off. They also say that [if I can] spin the motor at full speed to run it through two battery charges or so to correct the tightness in the pinion/main gear mating surfaces. Lo and behold today after my third battery it begins spinning on its own. I'm now recharging the battery and will let it run again to see if it helps the "cogging" as they call it. Basically the new pinion binds against the main gear more than normal. Running it at speed helps seat the new gears, I assume, which makes sense. But yeah, if I hand start the main rotor and ease into the throttle so as to not overload the ESC, I can get it to run full speed. Just ease the power on until it's about half stick, then switch to 3D flight mode and let her just spin. I still have ESC issues, I know. If I overload the collective the ESC will stall and stop power to the main motor. Requires full throttle down and rest for a few seconds. If the main rotor is still spinning at that point I can ease it back into full speed - otherwise I have to hand start it again. Frustrating.

05-22-2010, 02:40 PM	#14 (permalink)
adavis Registered Users Join Date: May 2010	The pinion gear is as far away from the main gear as I could get it. I guess I could try to ream out a little more room, but I don't want to go too far and risk damage to structural strength. Definitely advice I will put to practice, though. Thanks.

05-24-2010, 10:39 AM	#15 (permalink)
wschart Registered Users Join Date: Feb 2010	Well, my problem is the opposite - the main goes fine, but the tail has been problematic ever since I installed the brushless upgrade. Some of the problems were solved when I got the rotor setup dialed in and new blades, apparently vibrations were causing the gyro to cut out. While I was doing all this, I was test flying without the canopy and just letting all the wiring hand loose. But the tail was still "cogging" and I had to put on a little throttle and flip the tail rotor by hand to get it going. I could live with that while hoping that perhaps it would break in eventually. Anyway, once I got it flying well I put a rubber band around the wiring to hold it in and put the canopy back on. The tail rotor wouldn't work at all. So I took the canopy and band back off, and kind of looked around and wiggling various wiring to see if anything was loose. I succeeded in getting the tail working again, but I couldn't say exactly what did it. So I perhaps foolishly put the rubber band and canopy back on and the tail is now dead. I redid the soldering of the lead from the ESC to the motor and as far as I can tell, they are well soldered. I switched the 2 branches of the Y cable, since I knew the one branch was good, but that experiment indicated that actually both branches were good. I hooked my originally brushed motor back up and that didn't work either, although it was working fine when I made the upgrade. So right now I am sort of guessing that something got messed up in the RX when I used to rubber band to attach things. Is that possible? Everything else works fine. So maybe I'm looking at getting a new RX.

05-29-2010, 07:50 PM	#16 (permalink)
wschart Registered Users Join Date: Feb 2010	Well, it seems that I am back in business to some extent now. After letting the copter alone for a couple of days, I tried things again and the tail is back to more or less working. Still have to give it a flip to get it to run. It seems that it is very sensitive to vibration: if there is any, apparently the giro cuts out. But I think I have that pretty well under control.

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