advice planning Protos 500 FBL purchase

[matthewcornell]

Hi Folks. After some research here at HF plus helpful advice on my post How different from Align 500EFL Pro?, I've decided to take the plunge and build up a P500. I'll be transferring the servos (Align DS510Ms and a DS520) and AR7200BX off my Pro, but I have some questions for you:

• Kit: I'll get the MSH51104 with motor, ESC, and blades. Q: How much better is the Scorpion motor over the MSH one? Also, is the MSH ESC OK, or is the YGE much better?
• Kit version: I read that there are older kits out there that don't include updates. I read about the updates at http://rcdumbthumbs.com/MSHProtosKits.aspx . Some kits say explicitly that they're the latest (e.g., experiencerc.com). Q: Are there still older kits to look out for?
• FBL mods: I'm still confused about this because a) I've seen different versions of the flybarless upgrade ( https://www.helifreak.com/showthread.php?t=350547 has pics), b) I think there might be a whole MSH FBL head available, and c) I think there's a "lowered head" out there too. Q: What approach do you recommend? I also read that instructions are hard to find. Here are the kits I found (all about $50). Wasn't clear which were newer or older:
  • http://www.experiencerc.com/store/ms...de-p-3345.html
  • http://www.msh-direct.com/products/f...-msh51115.html
  • http://helidirect.com/msh51115-msh-f...os-p-22883.hdx
• Kit availability: I was surprised that I didn't find that many sites selling the kit. Q: Is this cause for concern? I worry about parts, maybe esp. given ReadyHeli's dropping the line.
• Q: Who to buy from? The only ones I found in stock:
  • http://www.rchobbiesandmore.com/Mshe...4-details.aspx - $399.99. Latest kit? Scorpion?
  • http://helidirect.com/msh-protos-500...es-p-22651.hdx - $420.99. Latest Kit? Scorpion.
  • http://www.experiencerc.com/store/ms...es-p-6418.html - $453.99. Latest kit. Scorpion.
• Anything else I should be thinking about?

Thanks a ton!

[flint723]

I would avoid the msh motor and esc. Nothing wrong with them but the yge + scorpion is better. Especially the yge esc.

I don't know about older kits, but I would think if you get a carbon kit with yge/scorpion it will probably be an updated kit. I think MSH's "updates" were a couple years ago. This heli has been in production for a very long time (since 2008).

The "fbl upgrade kit" simply uses your flybarred main hub minus all the flybar stuff, and adds in swash drivers, the extended balls and stuff. Dr M here on the forums really likes the MSH51115 kit rather than the other design of swash driver. The MSH51115 design is older, but I see they do have it in stock and I am not aware of any problems with it. I don't know if it makes much difference, I have used the regular fbl design and it seemed to work fine. The low fbl hub requires a stretched tail boom, because it lowers the head enough that main/tail blade interference is possible.

I have only dealt with Helidirect out of those 3, but I have heard good things about ExperienceRC. Helidirect is great and I am always surprised how easy they are to deal with over the phone. I had an order come missing 2 servos (mks ds92a+ 3pack combo and they only sent 1). I called them up and in 5 min the issue was resolved on my word alone. They shipped the 2 servos within a day.

Only other thing I would suggest is a full size tail servo. The ds520 will work of course, and it depends on what you are going to do with it. But everyone I've talked to who's tried a full size servo won't go back to a mini.

[MX48]

I thought the kit had a Scorpion motor and YGE ESC?

Moto

[ROGER G]

Hi Matthew
Welcome to our fraternity. Someone once said,

' I Am, Therefore I Think
I Think, Therefore Protos '

When I got my kit, it came with a motor that said both MSH and Scorpion on it. Also' the kit came with 60 amp YGE ESC. Add to your list Amain Hobbies, but have heard nothing but great comments about MSH DIRECT. I have the FB Protos and so happy with it, I have not gone FBL or Stretch yet. Good Luck !

[prillernut]

Sounds good to me , this is the route I've decided to go -

I'm just now getting going on my 51104 CF kit, though I've been following the Protos since it was introduced. The motor is built by Scorpion for MSH, and the ESC is a YGE 60A - both apparently good and well thought of. I bought my kit almost 12 months ago from Experience RC, and it had no "old" parts in it. FWIW, I also got the FBL and stretch kits and will be building it as such. I'll be using a Mini V-Bar, but it looks like the Brain and BeastX are now also popular. From the sounds of many happy Protos owners, I am really looking forward to this ...

[Dr. M]

Nice feedback, flint.

Just for the record, my preference for the older FBL head design using the delrin anti-rotation swash driver (MSH51117) is purely for aesthetic reasons. It has nothing to do with performance, or any other quantitative criteria...

[matthewcornell]

What are the concerns with the msh esc? Helidirect has a Scorpion kit in stock but without the yge, and they are in my state. I assume it has the latest mods.

[flint723]

The yge's bec is proven on fbl systems and it has an excellent governor. I think that could be the yge esc that helidirect has though. I would call them and ask, because I think the yge's could have a msh sticker on them. Maybe someone here can confirm if their yge 60a has msh branding on it?

I don't really know much about the older (lipotech) 60a esc. But there must have been a reason they went to YGE.
Here a guy says that it was an 80a if it was a lipotech, and the 60a's were yge's. Not sure if that's true or not.
https://www.helifreak.com/showthread.php?t=314916

[loknar28]

Moved to main Protos forum. Please Delete this post

Thanks,

[matthewcornell]

On order from HeliDirect. Should be here Friday :-) Figure I saved $400 re-purposing the servos and beastx. Expensive!

Regarding the tail servo, I have a Futaba S9257 on my 450 Sport. Would it be better to use it on the Protos instead of the DS520? Specs aren't that different. (Note: My buddy has a S9350, which has a *lot* more torque.)

[prillernut]

Originally Posted by flint723

The yge's bec is proven on fbl systems and it has an excellent governor. I think that could be the yge esc that helidirect has though. I would call them and ask, because I think the yge's could have a msh sticker on them. Maybe someone here can confirm if their yge 60a has msh branding on it?

I don't really know much about the older (lipotech) 60a esc. But there must have been a reason they went to YGE.
Here a guy says that it was an 80a if it was a lipotech, and the 60a's were yge's. Not sure if that's true or not.
https://www.helifreak.com/showthread.php?t=314916

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that when MSH started supplying ESCs, they were Lipotech 80A. Spring of 2010, MSH released the YGE 60A ESC. If you've got an 80A, it's Lipotech, if it's 60A it's a YGE. The YGE 60A is preferred, I can't recall specifics, but I believe it is the governor -

[matthewcornell]

Originally Posted by prillernut

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that when MSH started supplying ESCs, they were Lipotech 80A. Spring of 2010, MSH released the YGE 60A ESC. If you've got an 80A, it's Lipotech, if it's 60A it's a YGE. The YGE 60A is preferred, I can't recall specifics, but I believe it is the governor -

Thanks for that. HeliDirect opened a box and said it was labeled MSH, but the kit contains "(1) MSH 60A ESC with 4A BEC", so I guess I'm good.

[Buschpilot]

All actual Protos 500 kits with motor and ESC contain a Scorpion motor and a YGE ESC.

See http://www.msheli.com/Category.aspx?ID=3


And don't forget to order the YGE ProgCard III. This Card makes the ESC setup a lot easier. And you can use Gov.-Store.

[desertstalker]

Originally Posted by matthewcornell

Thanks for that. HeliDirect opened a box and said it was labeled MSH, but the kit contains "(1) MSH 60A ESC with 4A BEC", so I guess I'm good.

That is the YGE, it has a MSH label on it and different coloured wires but it is still the same ESC.