setting tail to zero pitch

[Bking1340]

Already emailed Art yesterday with this link to leave a comment/advice.

[nickyd]

Groucho...

on my DS95i how do I :
1: Set your tail servo horn to 90 degrees.

The horn is slightly off 90 deg. I cant use the centre button as this is used to set the zero blade pitch position.

Thanks again...

[Groucho_]

Originally Posted by nickyd

Groucho...

on my DS95i how do I :
1: Set your tail servo horn to 90 degrees.

The horn is slightly off 90 deg. I cant use the centre button as this is used to set the zero blade pitch position.

Thanks again...

Of course you can... And indeed you should.

Then when you're done setting your tail pushrod so as to centre your slider, use it again to set zero pitch.

[Skookum]

Hi Guys,

I was asked to comment here. From what I can see several posters have it right. The ideal is for the servo linkage to be near 90 degrees, and the tail pitch to be near zero degrees. The tail slider might not be near center or its arm near 90 degrees, but it doesn't matter.

There is some confusion because heli manufacturers have in mind the gyro being set up with a few degrees of tail pitch, but that's a holder-over from the days of non heading-hold gyros. For 99% of modern flyers there is no reason for it, and we can usually get better performance if our gyro knows where zero tail blade pitch is. It's also not the end of the world if you can't get zero pitch, but closer to zero is better.

- Art

[anthony1]

Originally Posted by Skookum

Hi Guys,

I was asked to comment here. From what I can see several posters have it right. The ideal is for the servo linkage to be near 90 degrees, and the tail pitch to be near zero degrees. The tail slider might not be near center or its arm near 90 degrees, but it doesn't matter.

There is some confusion because heli manufacturers have in mind the gyro being set up with a few degrees of tail pitch, but that's a holder-over from the days of non heading-hold gyros. For 99% of modern flyers there is no reason for it, and we can usually get better performance if our gyro knows where zero tail blade pitch is. It's also not the end of the world if you can't get zero pitch, but closer to zero is better.

- Art

so is the video the correct way to do it , or does groucho have it right, the way i'm reading your post the video is the right way to do it.

[cafediablo_30]

If i remember correctly,...there was a video from finless bob about the mechanical setting of the pitch slider,....he modified it by flipping the leading grip to trailing and produced a more zero pitch slider for mechanical setup

as for setting up in my sk540,I follow the directions,...90 the servo horn,..then adjust the rod linkage mechanically till the blades meet together folded for zero pitch,
I then view the endpoint travel from right to left with the blades still folded to achieve even travel on both ends and not focus on the sliderbeing closer to one side over the other,..

so far it's worked for me,...rock solid tail and even piro rate on both left and right rotations,...th 540 is by far the best when it comes to setting up the tail and performes flawless,...good luck with all,,take care,stay safe.

[anthony1]

Originally Posted by cafediablo_30

If i remember correctly,...there was a video from finless bob about the mechanical setting of the pitch slider,....he modified it by flipping the leading grip to trailing and produced a more zero pitch slider for mechanical setup.

yes you are correct there was a video about the 450 pro because of a design flaw with that heli, but this is a different debate, there are 2 ways to setup the tail , from my understanding, the original way( the video) or a newer way directly from art himself, both seem to work, it is just a matter of finding out if one way is better than the other, as both seem acceptable right now

[tfrotor]

We have always tried to maintain 90* linkage setups,this old and new way confusion
i believe is from when there was mostly Rate gain gyros,in rate mode u added about
7 to 8 degrees of right rudder if ur main rotor turns clockrise so u don't have to
constuntly apply rudder for the heli to maintain a constant heading,today most everyone flys in HH mode and that performs better with tail at 0* I realy don't think it matters how u go about gettin ur tail linkage and ur servo horn at 90* as long as u do it
For me I like using wheels and the 6 point star horns,if u have a 550 or bigger kit
those align wheels allow to setup ur servos ball links at 90* with out any SUB TRIM
For those of who haven't noticed anytime u use sub trim whichever direction u
trim in the servo takes that amount of travel from the other direction

[cafediablo_30]

Originally Posted by anthony1

yes you are correct there was a video about the 450 pro because of a design flaw with that heli, but this is a different debate, there are 2 ways to setup the tail , from my understanding, the original way( the video) or a newer way directly from art himself, both seem to work, it is just a matter of finding out if one way is better than the other, as both seem acceptable right now

the way art explained it is the exactley th way it is in the wizard,...he even mentioned that the slider may be off,.....the key point is that the gyro knows where center is (or atleast near)on the servo arm being 90,..and that the blades are zero pitched at that benchmark or begining point.

if the slider is a bit off it should be fine because the gyro is starting at that zero point where blades are zero pitch,..same for the endpoints,..if you try to input endpoints to where the slider almost touches or just before it bottoms to each left an right end,...the pitch will NOT be equal or even.

so the solution is to input the first endpoint just before it bottoms,..with the tail blades still folded you can notice how much degree of pitch,...or the V ,. if you had a compass ruller you could measure that,..then when inputing the second endpoint,..you would match the degree of pitch,..or the V,..this will give even amount of travel from the zero point,..your slider will Not be as close to bottoming on the second endpoint input but the tail will be centered perfectly have equal amounts of pitch left and right,..

th gyro does th rest of the work and we all continue flying happy,.

take care all,..and stay safe.

[anthony1]

Originally Posted by Groucho_

This is the only way it should be done:

1: Set your tail servo horn to 90 degrees.

2: Set your tail slider dead centre. (Use callipers if you have them) - Now you have a perfect mechanical setup and equal travel on both sides of pitch.

3: Use the SK-Software to set tail centre at zero pitch. - The SK-unit just wants to know where zero pitch is. You do this by folding the tail blades, and adjusting the tail centre value in the SK software until they are on the same plane. You only need to eyeball this.

Originally Posted by Groucho_

Don't be silly - No apologies needed...

It's true, this is not documented anywhere yet it would seem.

You will not have the slider in the centre while the blades at zero pitch unless your tail is designed that way.

The method you just mentioned is almost exactly correct.

Have the servo arm as close to 90 degrees as possible without or without trims - it depends on how accurate you want to be - (You'll need battery power and the SK software to do this)

Then while still connected to the SK software, adjust the length of your tail pushrod to centre the tail slider.

Now you have a centered slider and a centered tail servo.

If your helis tail is designed to have zero pitch at tail slider centered, then you're set.

If not, as with all my helis, use the SK-Software and adjust the tail centre value till the blades are at zero pitch.

When your pitch is zero now, the slider WILL be off to one side, since the tail would have been designed this way.

Obviously, also set your tail end points, which should turn out to be almost equal since you have a mechanically neutral setup.

That's about it...

and this is where I have a problem, yes you are right that in the video and even arts answer on here is to do it the way you describe , however, art also told groucho a different way to set his tail which differs from the video, I know in the greater scheme of things it doesn't really matter as they both work and work well, I've tried both ways and the only difference I can see is in the setup numbers , both ways flew the same , I was just trying to clarify in my own mind which is the recommended way,
and as an aside with all the playing with my tail linkages I found a potential problem that would have cost me a lot of parts when the tail let go, so all in all a valuable discussion, have to agree with the final statement <cafediablo_30 happy flying and stay safe

[tfrotor]

Originally Posted by cafediablo_30

the way art explained it is the exactley th way it is in the wizard,...he even mentioned that the slider may be off,.....the key point is that the gyro knows where center is (or atleast near)on the servo arm being 90,..and that the blades are zero pitched at that benchmark or begining point.

if the slider is a bit off it should be fine because the gyro is starting at that zero point where blades are zero pitch,..same for the endpoints,..if you try to input endpoints to where the slider almost touches or just before it bottoms to each left an right end,...the pitch will NOT be equal or even.

so the solution is to input the first endpoint just before it bottoms,..with the tail blades still folded you can notice how much degree of pitch,...or the V ,. if you had a compass ruller you could measure that,..then when inputing the second endpoint,..you would match the degree of pitch,..or the V,..this will give even amount of travel from the zero point,..your slider will Not be as close to bottoming on the second endpoint input but the tail will be centered perfectly have equal amounts of pitch left and right,..

th gyro does th rest of the work and we all continue flying happy,.

take care all,..and stay safe.

Very well said,but what i wonder is how much of that travel% do we
actually use in flying an the reason i wonder that is if u check the blurr
pyro box and u make ur that u have 100% in the live data fields when u
give a full L or R rudder command,that is pyro's at ur full travel%,Idid that
with my WhiplashE about130 ft up damn thing slung one of my 6s packs
out it was pyroing so fast Man it was INSANE

[cafediablo_30]

Originally Posted by tfrotor

Very well said,but what i wonder is how much of that travel% do we
actually use in flying an the reason i wonder that is if u check the blurr
pyro box and u make ur that u have 100% in the live data fields when u
give a full L or R rudder command,that is pyro's at ur full travel%,Idid that
with my WhiplashE about130 ft up damn thing slung one of my 6s packs
out it was pyroing so fast Man it was INSANE

WOW!!!,...I've only seen videos of the mentioned blur piro,...I would have assumed that you would need a longer tail shaft to create that amount of piro rate,..I'm sorry for the accident that occured,..hope things are back together and flying well again.

I personaly wouldn't have a need for such a piro rate and like tfrotor mentioned, it could potentialy be fatal to your helis lifspan,...

not to mention the injury it could cause to oneself or others,I've made mistakes in my early early days of learning and hope to never repeat such mistakes(bumping T/H when reaching for my 450,..sliceing my chins and wrist----haveing motor pluged when lipo connected and just trying to check tail....luckily just blades smashed my thumb,...now that's what you call dumb thumbing it,lol),..now I try to be as cautious and aware of what and where things may occur

sorry to get off subject,..but that 6s slinging out just brought back memories

again ,take care, stay safe.

[nick.m]

well i have a synergy n5c which has the tail designed to have 5 degrees of offset when the pitch control arm is at 90 so setting it up as per manual at 0 degrees left me with very little travel in 1 direction but i went with it any how and it flew fine but being curious after a couple of flights i decided so set it back as per the synergy manual with 5 degrees offset and the tail is much better and ive left it this way so id have to say it doesnt really matter about obtaining a 0 degree centre as per the skookum manual

[HFMan]

I would agree... I can't fathom why the SK needs to be aware where 0 deg pitch is- when is THAT ever needed/used?. I've never concerned my setups with that- I always set it for 90 degrees mechanical, and as long as the tail pitch is something reasonable, that's what I go with.

[Thunder Fighter]

When the guy who writes the algorithm says it helps to know where 0 degrees is, I tend to listen to him.

//Dennis.

[dpelletier]

Its all to do with high math which never was able to wrap my head around, so I'll just do as told and enjoy flying.

[omerco]

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