600 sized Scale Heli with raised tail and TT

[HornDog]

Hello! I am curently working on a scale AH-1 (Smartmodels 600 sized) and am looking into alternatives to a belt drive system. I am considering a Torque Tube solution and have found two potential 45 to 50 degree TT elbows that may work with the slim design of the tail section of this particular heli. The one issue I see is that using this elbow, so far from what I can see, causes the rotor to sit on the opposite side of the original (on the left side versus the right side of the tail). I know the issue is small byu comparison to the actual project but SCALE is SCALE! SO.... is there any other alternative besides an independent tail motor for the rotor? (I SOOOOO do not want to have to run two motors and two ESCs and get them dialed in to each other.

PLEASE! Any help is appreciated on getting my first scale build right!

[JoseReyes]

Originally Posted by HornDog

Hello! I am curently working on a scale AH-1 (Smartmodels 600 sized) and am looking into alternatives to a belt drive system. I am considering a Torque Tube solution and have found two potential 45 to 50 degree TT elbows that may work with the slim design of the tail section of this particular heli. The one issue I see is that using this elbow, so far from what I can see, causes the rotor to sit on the opposite side of the original (on the left side versus the right side of the tail). I know the issue is small byu comparison to the actual project but SCALE is SCALE! SO.... is there any other alternative besides an independent tail motor for the rotor? (I SOOOOO do not want to have to run two motors and two ESCs and get them dialed in to each other.

PLEASE! Any help is appreciated on getting my first scale build right!

This website has the push slider crank that you can put together for either left or right hand tails... you will have to email them but they will answer you in english I have purchased from them many times and they're very prompt in responding..

http://www.microhelis.de/afsshop/art...ea781cd2d9976f

[Andy01]

Originally Posted by HornDog

Hello! I am curently working on a scale AH-1 (Smartmodels 600 sized) and am looking into alternatives to a belt drive system. I am considering a Torque Tube solution and have found two potential 45 to 50 degree TT elbows that may work with the slim design of the tail section of this particular heli.

Show us (links) the two that you have found please.

Colin

[nightflyr]

RC Aerodyne has a conversion kit that may fill your requirements...

http://www.scaleflying.com/Torque-Tu...t-_p_2451.html

[HornDog]

Originally Posted by Andy01

Show us (links) the two that you have found please.

Colin

I found this one at Scaleflying.de (the don't ship to the US but I have a friend in Europe that would mail it to me) http://www.scaleflying.de/product_in...-600-size.html


and also this one at Scaleflying.com http://www.scaleflying.com/Torque-Tu...t-_p_2451.html

The first one may be a better fit due to the small area on the rear of the fuse boom area for the elbow... the narrower the better. The second one may be too wide to fit within the fuse frame in the tail.

[HornDog]

Originally Posted by JoseReyes

This website has the push slider crank that you can put together for either left or right hand tails... you will have to email them but they will answer you in english I have purchased from them many times and they're very prompt in responding..

http://www.microhelis.de/afsshop/art...ea781cd2d9976f

Thanks. I will definitely check them out... just thought about reversing the gear side of the tail shaft... gonna have to diagram it out and see if the rotation is preserved or not but at least it would be on the right side.....

[JoseReyes]

Originally Posted by HornDog

I found this one at Scaleflying.de (the don't ship to the US but I have a friend in Europe that would mail it to me) http://www.scaleflying.de/product_in...-600-size.html


and also this one at Scaleflying.com http://www.scaleflying.com/Torque-Tu...t-_p_2451.html

The first one may be a better fit due to the small area on the rear of the fuse boom area for the elbow... the narrower the better. The second one may be too wide to fit within the fuse frame in the tail.

You can most likely get that one from RC Aerodyne in the USA email them....

[Andy01]

Originally Posted by HornDog

I found this one at Scaleflying.de (the don't ship to the US but I have a friend in Europe that would mail it to me) http://www.scaleflying.de/product_in...-600-size.html


and also this one at Scaleflying.com http://www.scaleflying.com/Torque-Tu...t-_p_2451.html

The first one may be a better fit due to the small area on the rear of the fuse boom area for the elbow... the narrower the better. The second one may be too wide to fit within the fuse frame in the tail.

The first one was what shipped to me with my Seahawk fuselage and it stripped in flight after 7 minutes.

The second one I and testing now, and with main blades off, anchored down (with a plank through the skids), and full tail pitch (headspeed at 1350rpm), and only the front (± 5°) gearbox fitted, the gears stripped after 15 seconds of full tail pitch running.

Now perhaps this an unrealistically harsh test, but after the first Seahawk falling out of the sky when the flex drive broke, and the second Chaos 600 falling out of the sky when the 45° black plastic box failed (a full set of 4x 600mm blades plus other damage each time), I am a bit gun-shy.

Colin

[HornDog]

WOW Andy01.... Sorry for the losses but this is exactly the kind of information I need. I SOOOO do not want to have to deal with a belt option but if the elbow fails looks like it is all over from there. The benefits I loved about the TT option was the power and limited points of failure. But with the elbow option there are multiple potential points of failure... wonder if the gears in the joints could be replaced with stronger, maybe even metal gears.... Hmmmmm.......

[JoseReyes]

Originally Posted by HornDog

WOW Andy01.... Sorry for the losses but this is exactly the kind of information I need. I SOOOO do not want to have to deal with a belt option but if the elbow fails looks like it is all over from there. The benefits I loved about the TT option was the power and limited points of failure. But with the elbow option there are multiple potential points of failure... wonder if the gears in the joints could be replaced with stronger, maybe even metal gears.... Hmmmmm.......

Not sure what generation gears where stripping? When I talked to Cliff he said that they had replaced the original gears with second generation stronger gears.
My EC145 came with these same gears but version 2. I only had a chance to flight them for two two minutes hover test each, checking the gears every time. I haven't given them a full 7 minute yet due to a minor misshapen with one of my blade grips coming loose on my 3rd test flight having to do an auto rotation to the ground due to the violent shaking ofcthe head.

[Andy01]

I have no clue.

My black plastic angle gearbox arrived with the Seahawk in December 2011, and my adjustable angle tail drive kit arrived last week, and I believe left China mid January 2012.

So both were pretty recent.

Colin

[HornDog]

I was leaning towards the piece from Germany as it was sealed and the gears all internal to the part but I would rather be sure of the part before dropping 150 euro PLUS additiona shipping to NL and then from NL to the US... MAN I want this burd to perform but this elevated tail is so frustrating. A sperate motor/ ESC setup introduces a whole new issue (gearing ratios between the main and the tail) so the belt is looking like the safest although not necessarily the best option. I want to order parts soon so I am gonna have to dig into the web a little more... the Universal join though is sounding REAL good right about now!

-HD

[HornDog]

Originally Posted by JoseReyes

Not sure what generation gears where stripping? When I talked to Cliff he said that they had replaced the original gears with second generation stronger gears.
My EC145 came with these same gears but version 2. I only had a chance to flight them for two two minutes hover test each, checking the gears every time. I haven't given them a full 7 minute yet due to a minor misshapen with one of my blade grips coming loose on my 3rd test flight having to do an auto rotation to the ground due to the violent shaking ofcthe head.

JoseReyes, Any idea if you might get another test in soon? Nothing too stressful but to test the assembly out and see how it holds for you and your heli? I'm curious if Mod2 on the gears is working out better than the original gear set....

[JoseReyes]

Originally Posted by HornDog

JoseReyes, Any idea if you might get another test in soon? Nothing too stressful but to test the assembly out and see how it holds for you and your heli? I'm curious if Mod2 on the gears is working out better than the original gear set....

At this moment I'm having a bad shaking issue that I'm trying to resolve. Is not blade tracking nor balancing, go some pointers as to what it could be.. need to try this to see if it fixes it... I'm using beastx and I get the shakes soon after take off. Starts fine then within 40 seconds it start, could be swash gain too high. Will be lowering gain to see. I will let you know how it goes. The difference between me and Andy is he was using .4 blades on head and tail, were I'm using 4 blades on head but only two on tail and that makes a difference on the results. I will post once I get the shakes out of the heli.

[HornDog]

I had a similar issue on my 500 with my first FBL attempt with a BeastX... I had a much more powerful motor than the law should allow in that thing and the BeastX on startup and landing wanted to correct itself and tip over. Lost a BRAND NEW pair of Radix blades that way. Never flew with 'em before but I added skid nuts and it took care of it since I was launching on paved surfaces. No rush on that test JoseReyes.... get your stuff ironed out first! It is far more important than my build right now! Good luck!

[HornDog]

BTW, the elbow part from Germany (RCA Europe partners) may work for me... I am runing a two pladed setup on head and tail for the Cobra so maybe it will hold for me... time will tell.

[JoseReyes]

Originally Posted by HornDog

BTW, the elbow part from Germany (RCA Europe partners) may work for me... I am runing a two pladed setup on head and tail for the Cobra so maybe it will hold for me... time will tell.

It shouldn't be any problem, just make sure the the short tube is not binding anywhere on the tail. That's usually one thing that causes the gear to get unwanted streess and there they go....

[JoseReyes]

Originally Posted by HornDog

JoseReyes, Any idea if you might get another test in soon? Nothing too stressful but to test the assembly out and see how it holds for you and your heli? I'm curious if Mod2 on the gears is working out better than the original gear set....

I know is not 7 minutes but I was able to up my head speed to 1400 and lower swash gain on pot#1 to -2 and I did a full 5 minutes of uninterrupted awesome flight, gears on the back still in pristine mode.. Of course it was only 5 minutes, but 7 minutes hovering is a long time and I did this at lunch time from work...

[JoseReyes]

Originally Posted by JoseReyes

I know is not 7 minutes but I was able to up my head speed to 1400 and lower swash gain on pot#1 to -2 and I did a full 5 minutes of uninterrupted awesome flight, gears on the back still in pristine mode.. Of course it was only 5 minutes, but 7 minutes hovering is a long time and I did this at lunch time from work...

tried another flight and it was doing fine for about 6 minutes, then the shakes started again... this time I could not save the heli almost total loss....

[HornDog]

Originally Posted by JoseReyes

tried another flight and it was doing fine for about 6 minutes, then the shakes started again... this time I could not save the heli almost total loss....

Man! Sorry to hear that JoseReyes .... where did the shakes start? You think it as the tail assembly again? Maybe the BeastX trying to over compensate for something? I know that had to be frustrating buddy but hang in there. Tough times with these scale birds all around it seems.