Bye bye Lipos

[DebianDog]

Can we see video of this 10 minutes "hard core 3D"?

[spork]

Thanks again Gary. This all sounds great. Any idea whether the Triton charger is in for a similar upgrade?

[GGoodrum]

Originally Posted by DebianDog

Can we see video of this 10 minutes "hard core 3D"?

I don't have any video of this yet, but I'll try and get some this weekend. I'll get one of the "boys" to fly it.

-- Gary

[DebianDog]

[askman]

I use triton with lipodapter as well as TME extrema charger.
lipodapter is available from SLKelectronics.com


I moved over to a123 few month ago when TME extrema first came out and been very happy with them . I have v1.0 firmware, so I charge 10S at 9cell 4volt, which allows me 4.5amp charge rate. I have 10S and 5S packs made up. easy to do and very affordable/safe. on triton, I am down to 2.5amp at 10S, so I use it mostly for 5S packs. (at 5amp)

[spork]

Originally Posted by askman

I use triton with lipodapter as well as TME extrema charger.
lipodapter is available from SLKelectronics.com

Very slick. Thanks for the info. I still can't get over the unbelievable ability to share information with this interweb thingy!

[catfight]

askman,

Which heli are you using the 10S A123's in? With which motor? More info appreciated. Looking for motor choice for Trex 600 using HV85 (ALign ESC and 500 motor fried).

Thanks

[askman]

I am using 10S on logo 10, swift and raptor uses 10S2P. trex 600 requires neu 1512 motor. another possibility is z30A800 with larger pinion. (logo 10 pinion) really depends upon how much power you are looking for and type of flight. for AP type flight, z30 would work. for 3D, I would suggest z50, but requires frame mod to fit.

[catfight]

askman,
Which Neu 1512 (1.5,2, etc) motor would you suggest for T600? For AP particularly. Possibly for 3D with pinion change?

[kgfly]

Gary,

Thank you for all that info and the great photos. I had always thought of a 4S A123 as a regular flat arrangement (==) rather than the squarish brick approach, which in retrospect of course makes more sense. Your experience is very encouraging as I had thought the tradeoffs worked against a T450 size heli, but clearly not. Hmmm, something to think about when my lipos wear out...

[rcboosted]

What is the actual weight of the pack? 10min is way better than my 2150 pack. I barely get 6min out of it. That's with no 3D just hard flying with maybe 2200rpm.

Where will you be flying this weekend Gary? I'm very close to OC.

[spork]

So I got my cells in today. I'm excited to try them out but I still have a bit of tweaking to do. Using a similar config to Gary's mine comes out nose heavy. I'm consider two cells in the canopy and 2 under the frame for CG purposes.

For those that feel these cells are too heavy for the 450 (and they may well be right), I did a few calcs. It looks to me like the disk loading on a 450 with 4S A123's is lower than a standard T-Rex 600. But I have to admit, it feels a little heavy.

I've been practicing my autos on the Rex lately, and I'll feel lousy if I traded away that option. I'll post what I find.

[kgfly]

Using a similar config to Gary's mine comes out nose heavy

Probably because you don't have a 30g gyro with a monster 9650 servo hanging out the back, right? See, now you can spend $250 on a 401/9650 combo as a counterweight :wink:

[outfrontframes]

About these cells. I have a couple of questions.
For my 3 cell LiPo's I use my MRC Super Brain 989 and it works great. I have been using this charger for a while. Can you charge the emoli cells with a standard LiPo charger, like my MRC?
If so then what charge rates are necessary to properly charge them?

I have put alot of thought into the whole lipo vs emoli question and I am going to give these cells a shot.
The cost factor is the biggest reason for me along with the fact that my T600 will be an AP rig so no 3D or anything.

Thanks for the help guys..

[spork]

Most of us have been talking about the A123 or M1 cells (same thing) on this thread. That is not the same as an emoli. The A123's can be charged with a LiPo charger if you buy the "LipoDapter". Don't try to charge them directly from a LiPo charger without this though.

If you do mean emoli (not A123) ignore all of this. I don't know about the emoli's.

[kgfly]

outfrontframes,

Perhaps you have confused the emoli (LiIon, 3.6V/cell, 3000mAh - found in Milwalkee V28 drill packs) and A123 (LiFe, 3.3V/cell, 2300mAh - come in Dewalt 36v drill packs) ?

With the Emoli cells you use the same no. of cells per battery as for lipos. So if you want to replace a 3S lipo you use 3S Emoli. With A123, due to their typical 3.0V/cell under load, you need extra cells. So a 3S (11.1V) lipo gets replaced with a 4S (12.0V) A123, a 4S (14.8V) lipo with a 5S (15.0V) A123.

The Emolis have a higher capacity (3000mAh) compared to the A123 (2300mAh) but a lower discharge rate 15C vs 30C for A123.

If your charger has a setting for LiIon then you can charge the emolis with that setting. For A123 you either have to mess around a lot, get a LipoDapter (mixed reviews) or get a new charger with LiFe support (TP1010 with new software, FMA Cellpro4S, eStationBC5/BC8/902).

[outfrontframes]

Thanks guys. I was originally looking into the Milwaukee packs. So yes I did get them confused..
So just to clarify for me. i will get more flight time from the Milwaukees than i would with the DeWalts but the DeWalts would give me more power when I needed it.
If that is correct than maybe I should be loking into the Milwaukee packs to get the flight time since I wont be needed the instant power like I would for 3D.

[kgfly]

Yes, I think that is about right. Start with the heli specs to determine the expected current load. These cells are heavy (A123=70g, emoli=not sure, but similar) so typically are only used in 1P configurations. Hence you are looking at 3000/15C=45A or 2300/30C=69A. I would probably derate those somewhat to maybe 40A and 60A based on comments from a friend. If you AP ship will fly on 40A or less then emolis could indeed be your best choice, with the advantage that any LiIon charger can do the job.

I have not looked as much into emolis as A123s so do some more research to confirm the specifications and charging details before parting with your cash.

[spork]

For what it's worth, I downloaded an excellent document from the FMA website. It opened my eyes on a couple of issues about the A123's. They're not quite as robust as I'd imagined. Here's my quick summary:

- Don't overcharge them.
- Don't drain them too low
- Don't let them get over 140 deg-F
- Balancing is important.

All sounds pretty familiar - huh?

And here's the doc:

[rerazor]

Huh. I seem to do just the opposite besides getting them over 140f (which I can't seem to do during the winter) :mrgreen: