tail performance in Windy conditions.

[maarset]

Been pretty windy here on the west coast this last week.
I do have to say the Warp 360 really seems to handle constant 10mph winds with
some 20 mph gusts like a CHAMP. I actually enjoy the flights and don't seem to be
fighting the wind at all.
Now this only really happens when I am flying in the wind, but if I am doing some fast
backwards circuits and as I turn with the wind (going with the wind flying backwards) and really use the wind to get some Ultra fast
backwards I can break the tail free a little. Maybe like 60 degrees. Nothing that would really cause a loss of control.
I usually get a warning from the tail before it happens.

IMO I believe I have the main tail gain on the vbar as far up as I can. In low wind situations I can do Big Sky
backwards or backwards inverted super fast circuits and the tail holds. If I go up maybe 3 points on the gain I can get a fast tail wag
doing fast backwards.

I can do hard collective climb outs and then do a hard aileron roll and the tail holds well. If I do this move in the wind
the tail will wash out a little.

I'm using a Futaba BLS257 tail servo (mini).
MKS cyclic servos. YGE esc vbar gov.
Belt is snug so I believe it is not slipping.
Tail mechanics is smooth like butter.
Have not taken the tail grip bearings out to inspect them.
I'm using KBDD 59mm tail blades.

I'm ok with this if this is normal. Sometimes I need to realize that this is a 450 heli and I do tend to ask too much of it sometimes.

Mike

[Bimbo]

I don't know about Vbar, but maybe you can adjust the I gain? (that's the 'delay' setting on Align gyros, or 'tail dynamic' on the BeastX). What this does is as the tail is coming closer to where the gyro wants it to be, it'll lower the servo output (tail thrust) to prevent an overshoot when it's back where the gyro wants it to be.

[maarset]

When I think of over shooting I'm thinking the tail is over correcting.

IE: Doing a hard pitch pump and tail swings too far clickwise.

But my tail is losing ground. It is going counter clockwise.

I do have to admit I am not the best at PID gain tuning.

But vbar does allow you to change P and I gains I do believe.

[velocity90]

Have you set the tail endpoints according to the manual? Hard 3d spacing approx half a mm

Also I would run 61mm

[maarset]

Not sure I'm following. In the vbar software I have the tail limits going full travel both ways.

[velocity90]

Originally Posted by maarset

Not sure I'm following. In the vbar software I have the tail limits going full travel both ways.

Look in the manual. You should leave a small space.

[GnarfleTGarthok]

I had the same problem with the Edge 60mm tail blades. The 61kbdd's were a little better. Went back to the Compass 68mm blades and the tail holds perfect in full throttle hurricanes any orientation.

[Bob O]

My specs:

Edge main and tails, 17T tail pulley, 3,150 RPM head speed.

This video was done in 15 to 20 mph wind, near full collective (12.5 deg) on the down wind/cross wind side, no problems with the tail holding.

Compass Warp 360 - Inverted hurricane practice on a windy day (1 min 31 sec)

[Bimbo]

Originally Posted by maarset

When I think of over shooting I'm thinking the tail is over correcting.

IE: Doing a hard pitch pump and tail swings too far clickwise.

But my tail is losing ground. It is going counter clockwise.

I do have to admit I am not the best at PID gain tuning.

But vbar does allow you to change P and I gains I do believe.

The P gain is the regular gain we're all used to. If the gain is too high, the tail will hunt. If the gain is too low, you have bad tail authority/feels sluggish.

The I gain essentially corrects for the slowness of a tail servo. The slower your servo, the higher the I gain that you need. In the following example I assume a good tuned P gain (which you should do first anyway) and a slow servo (for easier understanding):
Assume there is no I gain. The gyro wants your tail at 0 degrees, but it is currently on 5 degrees, so the gyro is giving input to the servo to move the tail back to 0. As the tail is getting closer to 0, the input to the servo gets less and less, and when it hits 0 degrees, the servo output will be neutral (where neutral is still a little thrust, to compensate for main rotor torque). But, your servo isn't in neutral yet! It's getting the command to be at zero, but it is still moving to 0. This is where the speed of a servo comes in (the 0.09s/60deg for example). So the servo is still giving the tail rotor too much thrust, and the tail overshoots. This is where the I gain comes in: the I gain gives the signal to the servo to go to neutral slightly early, so when the tail actually is at 0, the servo will also be at 0. This is the I gain, that needs to be tuned. A faster servo will need a shorter 'early command'.

Get it? I hope this is kinda clear...
Remember we're talking about fractions of a second here... This is the fine-tuning part.

Edit: so the tail overshoot that I'm talking about above, has nothing to do with a tail hunt due to high P-gain. In fact, you need to tune the P-gain first, so you have no tail hunt. Then, as you fine-tune your I-gain, you will find that when the I-gain is tuned, you can increase the P gain a slight bit. This is because first you had a little overshoot, which induced a tail hunt, so you had to lower the P gain to get rid of that tail hunt. But now your I-gain is set properly, you can make the P-gain sliiiiightly higher again.
Edit2: man, the above is kinda complicated... I do understand what I'm talking about, but I'm not sure if I'm decently able to put this into words on a forum...