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View Poll Results: How eager do you want a steel pinion to replace the soft stock aluminum pinion? | |||
I would pay $15 for a steel one with OWB | 6 | 15.38% | |
I would pay $20 for a steel one with OWB | 19 | 48.72% | |
I would pay $15 for a steel one even without OWB | 2 | 5.13% | |
Who cares about steel pinion. I just scale/sport fly | 9 | 23.08% | |
I want it so bad I would custom make my own | 3 | 7.69% | |
Voters: 39. You may not vote on this poll |
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07-24-2014, 11:45 PM | #1 (permalink) |
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How eager do you want a steel pinion?
EDIT: I edited the thread title. I'm not going to make steel pinion for sale but this thread is to trigger others to make steel pinion for sale (Hi Luca, Dylan, and Corrado). I added a poll to check interests for a steel pinion. I know I'm not alone that I want a steel pinion bad and that's why I made my own to the point I don't even care about running OWB. I can't stand the stock soft aluminum pinion. It saw-toothes too easy especially with hard flying but regardless of my belt tension setting and it just saw-toothes my belt because of the soft aluminum pinion. I hope this thread and the poll will show how much interests there are out there for a steel pinion to hopefully trigger someone to make and sell one.
I know I may very well jinx it before final testing but here's a sneak peak of my latest project... I love almost everything about the stretched Protos design and execution except for the soft aluminum pinion. The aluminum wears out just too quick. Once the teeth wear into saw-tooth shape the belt will start to slip and the accelerated wear just snowballs. If I fly hard (which the rest of the heli can certain withstand the beating) I'll be very lucky to get 100 flights out of the pinion and the belt. I'm still extremely surprised nobody makes a steel pinion for the Protos! (Hello Luca and Dylan!). So here it is... ...my steel pinion prototype! For now, I start by running it without OWB to break it in and see how it flies without OWB and then decide if I want to proceed and bore out the pinion to fit in OWBs and radial bearings. I really do want to run OWBs but without them I'm now able to use the adaptor designed for 15T+ that runs the bigger 6mm shaft which means no need for 3rd bearing support which is a big plus. Hope my testing goes well with 15T+ 6mm shaft adaptor without running 3rd bearing. I really hope this project will be a success and don't want to go back to stock soft aluminum pinions. From left to right, 6mm shaft adaptor for 15T+, super saw-toothed stock 13T soft aluminum pinion, Lynx mod1 13T steel pinion for Blade 550X ground down to right diameter but before machining grooves to fit belt Finished 13T pinion in place with 6mm shaft adaptor for 15T+ It's getting dark so I just had some hovering at my backyard. Everything runs smooth. Before breaking in the pinion I didn't want to push it hard or even a direct complete stop without OWB so I set up normal mode to about half my normal HS as a step to come down from full HS and then vBar idle bailout speed and then complete stop. I don't want even a slight chance of residue HS pushing teeth towards pinion causing it to skip because of no OWBs. So far so good and I'll run down a few packs tonite without blades to break in the teeth before real flight test hopefully tomorrow.
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mCPx'es/130X/3D-foamie: ugly mods 300X: fast beater/trainer, Protos stretched: trainer but can also go fast FPV250 5.8G, nQx FPV, Oh also Trex 450DFC Last edited by DoubleCH; 07-27-2014 at 02:02 PM.. |
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07-26-2014, 12:27 AM | #2 (permalink) | ||
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Went thru' 8 packs today and so far so good. I didn't push it hard today yet. Last nite I ran up and down different speeds with no main blades for 3 full packs hoping the steel pinion would wear in but even the machining marks are still totally untouched so I didn't push it hard today in fear of excessive wear on the belt or even skip a tooth. Even after 8 packs of normal and moderate flying there's still not a single hint the belt has been on the pinion. Stock soft aluminum pinion would've started to wear out by 8 packs. So far I'm still running my saw-toothed belt (from the saw-toothed stock pinion) and it's my last belt so I don't want to push too hard yet. Next I'll order custom belt hopefully polyerethane ones and another project to add more grip between the pinion and the belt. Stay tuned.
Here's a video from today. Nothing much exciting about the flying as I mentioned I didn't want to push it hard. This flight also tested my new f1.4 6mm lens (half the width of view of stock lens) for my Mobius 1080p ActionCam. No more tiny heli in my flight videos.
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mCPx'es/130X/3D-foamie: ugly mods 300X: fast beater/trainer, Protos stretched: trainer but can also go fast FPV250 5.8G, nQx FPV, Oh also Trex 450DFC |
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07-27-2014, 01:34 PM | #3 (permalink) | ||
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Still working fine 2nd day of breaking it in. There's still not a single hint on the pinion that a belt has been running thru' it. The machining marks are still totally there. My custom belt project may not come as soon as I hoped for because I can't find a 5mm belt. Perhaps I can trim down a 6mm belt to work, but the custom lengths aren't close enough so I'll have to stretch/shorten the boom. Maybe it's worth ordering another stock stretch belt before my current saw-toothed one (from the soft stock aluminum pinion) dies. I already reversed the belt so that the saw-toothed side is not the load side but I don't want to push it until I have my next belt ready. That's why I decided to set up some lower HS just for fun. I normally fly 2250 which I find good enough. I also set up 2150 and 2000. The motor is running too slow out of the efficient range so I didn't want to fly the whole pack at 2000 in fear of overheating the motor. To note my HS change during hover in the video, the number of blades you see in the "virtual blade stop" tells you what HS i's running: 2-blade = 1800, 6-blade = 2100, 4-blade = my usual 2250.
EDIT: Oops, wrong video! Fixed!
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mCPx'es/130X/3D-foamie: ugly mods 300X: fast beater/trainer, Protos stretched: trainer but can also go fast FPV250 5.8G, nQx FPV, Oh also Trex 450DFC Last edited by DoubleCH; 07-31-2014 at 12:09 AM.. |
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07-27-2014, 03:33 PM | #4 (permalink) |
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How eager do you want a steel pinion?
I haven't had any problems with my "soft" aluminum pinion, any reason for steel?
But either way very awesome
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"I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things." Jay • Helifreak number: 189,781 |
07-27-2014, 04:44 PM | #5 (permalink) | ||
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Thanks for voting and reply. The reason for steel pinion is that the stock soft aluminum pinion is the Achilles' heel of this heli. Everything in my current stretch setup is good for 2400rpm HS and smack 3D except for the soft aluminum pinion. Because of the stretch nature, there are fewer teeth contacting the belt at all time (13T vs 15T) which on top of the added torque of the 13T accelerate wear much more significantly. With a new belt and 13T pinion and tension set properly, the pinion started to wear out in less than a handful of flights. Within 10 flights, it wore out quite significantly. Then I started to limit my flying to no smacks. Yet my 13T pinion started to saw-tooth badly and started saw-toothing my belt. That was not even close to 100 flights yet. By 100 flights the belt just started slipping because of the saw-tooth profiles on the belt and the pinion teeth. And that's my 2nd 13T pinion. My 1st one was shown in the pics above. And that's after replacing my 14T pinion which also saw-toothed. That's 3 pinions in 6 months.
I thought about modding the CF frame to run a 2nd idler pulley on the right side just like it does on the right side to significantly increase number of teeth contacting the belt at all time. However, it doesn't look like there'll be enough belt for the job. If a custom belt or shortening boom is required, it's going to be a big project. In the meantime, I thought I would give the steel pinion project a try, hopefully it'll spark interests for someone else to mass produce them. I'm hoping I'll be able to fly like this again not worrying about wearing out pinion/belt.
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mCPx'es/130X/3D-foamie: ugly mods 300X: fast beater/trainer, Protos stretched: trainer but can also go fast FPV250 5.8G, nQx FPV, Oh also Trex 450DFC |
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07-27-2014, 07:24 PM | #6 (permalink) |
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How eager do you want a steel pinion?
Wow, thanks for the info....is this only for stretch or also normal boom? Im still on a plastic flybar normal
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"I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things." Jay • Helifreak number: 189,781 |
07-27-2014, 10:47 PM | #7 (permalink) |
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Re: How eager do you want a steel pinion?
13T is much worse than 15T because fewer teeth contact the belt at any given time. Also 13T provides much more torque than 15T. Stretch also requires more torque. All my friends with 15T have wear out problem but not as bad as my stretch with 13T.
Sent from my SGH-I337M using Tapatalk
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mCPx'es/130X/3D-foamie: ugly mods 300X: fast beater/trainer, Protos stretched: trainer but can also go fast FPV250 5.8G, nQx FPV, Oh also Trex 450DFC |
07-29-2014, 03:13 AM | #8 (permalink) |
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Yea but the 15T wears also. I´m flying the 14T now for 50 flights and see the wear is starting. It´s a wear&tear item and I wouldn´t mind having a longer lasting alternative. What I found out on the MiniP is that my pinions seem to last longer when tension is on the firm side. On the Mini I wore down a pinion in 75 flights with too loose tension.
Really creative machine work DoubleCH How did you know the 550X pinion would be (close to) same pitch? And how were the teeth cut for belt use? My fear though would be that now the belt wears instead of the pinion.
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07-29-2014, 03:44 AM | #9 (permalink) |
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Belt only starts to slip when pinion teeth are saw-toothed. I tried loose and tight tensions and found that actually tighter tension wears faster but belt won't slip until pinion saw-tooth significantly which then saw-tooth belt teeth and make belt slip. Looser tension wears slower but belt starts to slip sooner. Either way it's bad.
I did quite a bit of searching and calculations. The closest to 3mm-pitch pulley is actually mod 0.8 or 32 pitch pinion. However, those size pinions usually don't run gear full length which means not enough metal to fit OWBs and regular bearings inside the pulley if I decide to use OWBs. That's why I chose the Lynx mod1 pinion for 550X. I don't think stock 550X run mod1 gears though. Cutting gear teeth to pulley teeth took intensive manual labor. It's trade secret. All I can say is the final product is more like a piece of art.
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mCPx'es/130X/3D-foamie: ugly mods 300X: fast beater/trainer, Protos stretched: trainer but can also go fast FPV250 5.8G, nQx FPV, Oh also Trex 450DFC |
07-29-2014, 03:11 PM | #10 (permalink) |
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As mentioned in my Double-Idler mod thread, I found out stock stretch belt is actually long enough to run around a 2nd idler with 13T just by pushing tail boom block all the way forward and motor block all the way backwards.
Can't wait to test it out today!
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mCPx'es/130X/3D-foamie: ugly mods 300X: fast beater/trainer, Protos stretched: trainer but can also go fast FPV250 5.8G, nQx FPV, Oh also Trex 450DFC |
07-31-2014, 12:55 AM | #11 (permalink) |
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After about 3-40 flights to-date the steel pinion finally starts to show shiny spots on the teeth as footprints from the belt but the machining marks are still untouched. Actually, I don't even know if the shiny marks come from the silicon spray I put on today. Anyways, by this many flights, stock pinion would've been worn quite significantly. When time comes to put in a new belt I'll take closer inspection on the teeth mating surfaces to make sure they match as good as possible.
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mCPx'es/130X/3D-foamie: ugly mods 300X: fast beater/trainer, Protos stretched: trainer but can also go fast FPV250 5.8G, nQx FPV, Oh also Trex 450DFC |
07-31-2014, 09:51 AM | #12 (permalink) |
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Just yanked another one off my P500 frequent flyer, 13t this time.
You have my vote for a steel pinion, otherwise I'll just have to stock up on these things. Last edited by kavic5150; 08-01-2014 at 09:16 AM.. |
07-31-2014, 04:19 PM | #13 (permalink) |
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Consider trying my double-idler mod. It's DIY-able. Just drill holes on the right side of frame for the 2nd idler and move boom forward and motor backward for the extra belt length required. With 2nd idler, belt wraps around pinion longer, from 1/2 way around to 3/4 way around. More teeth spreading the load means lower tension required and less stress and wear on the pinion. How much less I don't know because I'll be using my steel pinion but I think it's worth a try.
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mCPx'es/130X/3D-foamie: ugly mods 300X: fast beater/trainer, Protos stretched: trainer but can also go fast FPV250 5.8G, nQx FPV, Oh also Trex 450DFC |
08-01-2014, 12:43 AM | #14 (permalink) |
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About to change a belt and I see your post DoubleCH, check my 15T, and sure enough it's sawtoothy. I'm new to this, and wondering how polished mine is. The height looks nearly full (Kavic: you wore that out!), just the teeth are sadly half the factory width, so not as thin as the pinion DoubleCH posted, but still pretty lean. You guys think I can get a reasonable lifespan out of the new belt anyways? Or bite the belt and order a new pinion, aluminum tho it would be....
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08-01-2014, 01:50 AM | #15 (permalink) |
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Not too too bad. My last stock aluminum 13T wore out like that in less than 20 flights. I think it's better to change the pinion and the belt at the same time because once the pinion teeth are saw-toothed, they'll wear out the belt teeth into saw-tooth shape also. If you put in a new belt without new pinion it might accelerate wear on the new belt.
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mCPx'es/130X/3D-foamie: ugly mods 300X: fast beater/trainer, Protos stretched: trainer but can also go fast FPV250 5.8G, nQx FPV, Oh also Trex 450DFC |
08-01-2014, 09:23 AM | #16 (permalink) | |
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Quote:
Yesterday I was thinking maybe a larger main gear might be in order. That way we could lean towards the larger pinions and reduce the strain on those toasty warm Scorpion motors. Sure it would be a tall order, new frame sides and a longer belt would be required. Just a thought. I know most of us dont want a Protos V2. I sure dont. |
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08-01-2014, 12:06 PM | #17 (permalink) |
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I wonder if frequent "lubing" of the pinion surface with, say, silicone spray help with a bit longer life (though not preventing it).
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08-01-2014, 12:26 PM | #18 (permalink) |
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I've tried everything. Last pinion/belt I religiously lube belt and it didn't seem to help if not hurting actually. That set ran the smoothest but wore out the quickest.
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mCPx'es/130X/3D-foamie: ugly mods 300X: fast beater/trainer, Protos stretched: trainer but can also go fast FPV250 5.8G, nQx FPV, Oh also Trex 450DFC |
08-01-2014, 12:31 PM | #19 (permalink) | |
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Quote:
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mCPx'es/130X/3D-foamie: ugly mods 300X: fast beater/trainer, Protos stretched: trainer but can also go fast FPV250 5.8G, nQx FPV, Oh also Trex 450DFC |
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08-01-2014, 04:21 PM | #20 (permalink) |
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Just finished putting in a new belt and ready to test later on today. Good and bad news.
Bad news, the pinion I cut was based on a worn belt so mating surfaces weren't perfect with the new belt. That's probably why I was a bit surprised the worn belt started to slip with the tension I loosened to because with the double-idler mod I was expecting much looser tension before belt started to slip. Good news, once I've spent some time working on the piece of art to better the mating surfaces, the new belt feels to run smoother than the old belt and seems like with my double-idler mod I'll have to loosen tension a lot before the belt will slip. All the break-in I did with the old belt was kind of a waste because I re-machined the pinion afterwards. That's OK. It's good to know how long it takes to break-in steel pinion, haha! Can't wait to test the new belt and re-machined pinion setup but I'll take it easy at 1st to break-in/stretch the belt.
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mCPx'es/130X/3D-foamie: ugly mods 300X: fast beater/trainer, Protos stretched: trainer but can also go fast FPV250 5.8G, nQx FPV, Oh also Trex 450DFC |
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