First attempt..........

[MotorRotor]

Originally Posted by strat1960s

I appreciate everyone's suggestions. I do not have any NiCd packs and it takes about a month to get one here to the island.
I can connect one of my NiMh packs directly to the module and test it that way. I'm 99% certain it's not working because of how I tried to make my connections.
By the way, my understanding was the higher the mAh, the longer I can fly before having to recharge. Is this correct?

Ted

Their are three ratings for batteries - the only type I know that give all three are the LiPo manufacturers.

1 - Nominal Voltage Rating- the voltage to expect under a relatively LOW load at mid time.

2 - Mah Rating - the milliamp per hour rating at a relatively LOW current demand.This is generally used to calculate how long the battery will provide the desired voltage at a relatively LOW (usually around 200mah.)

3 - Current or C rating - this is not generally supplied by the NiMh or NiCd manufacturers but is a very important rating for our use in these helis. It tells us how much current can be asked of the pack, while it will still deliver the nominal voltage that they are rated at.

So you can have three different packs of the same Voltage and Mah ratings, that will all perform the same if you only ask a current drain from them of 2/10th of an amp. (200mah), But what happens when you try to use the packs in a high current demand situation, say a continuous 2.0 amps ( that is 10 times more current then 2/10 amp!), which is similar to that from the EI unit? One pack may not be able to even deliver 3 volts under that much load, another may only be able to deliver 3.4V and the third may be able to deliver the rated 4.8Volts.

This is because the three are designed for different applications. if one is designed for use in alarm systems for example then current capacity is not as important as time endurance. So this type of battery, though rated the same as the others (e.g. 4.8V & 2400mah). Usually you will find that this pack is also smaller and/or lighter, then one with the same V/mah specs that is design for a high current. application

[strat1960s]

MotorRotor,

What do you recommend I use to power my ignition module??

[Dennis P]

Originally Posted by strat1960s

Billme,

Before installing the fan I was able to pick up the fan with a screw drive on the magnet.
Guys, I have a spark. That's not my problem. The problem is that my switch has two male leads. One lead is for power going out when the switch is tuned on. The other lead is for charging the battery pack with the switch turned off. I thought I would be able to connect my volt watch to this lead, but it doen't have power when the switch is turned on. I just need to figure out if I want to splice a lead into the wire that has power when the switch is turned on or go without the volt watch.
Thank you for all your suggestions.

Ted

If you want the volt watch you will have to splice into the power out side going to the module.As you have found the charge port goes open circuit when the switch is on.

[strat1960s]

MotorRotor,

Now I understand what you guys have been trying to explain to me about packs being made for specific purposes.

So here is my new question:
What are you guys using to supply 4.8v to the ignition module??

Ted

[Billme]

I'm using Hyperion LifE packs.. No switch, but I put 2 3 amp barrel diodes from /Radio shack in series on the red wire on the ignition module to step the voltage down...Works great...

[MotorRotor]

Originally Posted by Billme

I'm using Hyperion LifE packs.. No switch, but I put 2 3 amp barrel resistors from /Radio shack in series on the red wire on the ignition module to step the voltage down...Works great...

That should work find. Rather simple to do also. How many do you put in series?

I have heard of others using those packs with simple diodes to drop the voltage. I wonder if there is a schematic somewhere?

[strat1960s]

I tried starting the motor again, yesterday. I know I've got spark and the voltwatch did it's job at indicating a pull on the battery pack when trying to start the motor. I think the packs I have will be enough to start the motor, but not enough to keep it running for very long. Problem is that I've got spark (I've seen it), but I'm wandering about the low and high needles. I've haven't changed the factory settings.

Billme,
What size LiFe packs are you using? Did you solder in the two 3 Amp resistors in series?

Not a lot of time to work on the Radikal today, but I pulled the plug and spun the motor over with my home made starter. I could see and hear the spark each time the motor turned over.

[Dennis P]

I am having very good luck just running a 2000mah 1S lipo pack.I just used a 2S 1000mah pack and disassembled it .I put the 2 cells in paralell to make a 2000mah 1S pack.Under 20.00 dollars and no regulator or resistors needed.Not saying it is better or anything ,just that it works well and is light.I just came in from 30minutes of flying and about 5 minutes of test hovering ect.I put 1100mah back into it.I use deans plugs on the pack and the ignition wires.No switch or anything else to go wrong . Take care and have fun.I just did a little better test on MAH draw over a couple flights.2 x 14minute flights and startup time was 574mah back into the ignition pack and 886mah back into the Hyperion 2s life pack for the receiver.Ignition wise it should fly this thing safely for a hour .The receiver is a 2100mah pack so I would not push it that far.

[Billme]

Sorry guys....I'm using a 2100 liFe and a 1600 ma on the Ignition....

No schematic needed Phil, just get TWO 3 amp barrel diodes from Radio Shack, or some type of electronics store, and solder them in series..You want the rings on the diodes facing the ignition in series on the red wire...

You can cut the length of the contacts to what you need to keep it from being to bulky...Of course shrink wrap it good...

[PeterW]

I'm using Hyperion LifE packs 2100 mAh and a Castle 10A BEC Switching Regulator, 5.1 volt to the EI.

[guitarherowanab]

is there anywhere to buy 1s lipos? im not real comfy taking a lipo apart. i saw a while ago that rre was selling a 2 in 1 battery....2s dor electronics and then a 1s for ignition, but they dont have them anymore.

im using a 2300mah nimh right now, as well. i was getting spark, but the engine wasnt firing, and then it stopped getting spark. my ignition is at horizon right now, so ill find out about this great customer service they supposedly have!

[strat1960s]

To be honest, I'm more comfortable soldering a pair of diodes inline with the power lead than I am with pulling apart a lipo pack. Lipo/life pretty much all packs make me a little nervous. Had many experiences with battery acid. None were good for me.
I hope Horizon tells you that the pack is defective and your new pack is on it's way to you.

[guitarherowanab]

to update....i ordered a 1s 2500mah lipo from www.maxamps.com. so light its almost not there, and plenty of spark. plus i can just charge it and dont have to worry bout' cycling!

[strat1960s]

Just an update:
I was informed that the spark plug boot needed to go up and over the spark plug nut. I just pushed it on and thought it was good to go. So I corrected that.
I was told that the plastic carb spacer is prone to cracks and leaks. So I replaced that with an aluminum carb spacer from BH Hanson.

I know that I've got spark right before the piston reached TDC. I've got the low idle needle set at 1 1/4 and the high needle set at 1 1/2.
I'm in the process of replacing the stock ei system with one from RCXCell. I'm placing my order today.
I am working with a fellow from another forum and he's been very patient and very helpfull. I'll post updates as they happen.

Thank you everyone that helped.

Ted

[guitarherowanab]

the rcexcel ignition solved my starting problems. it is a little neater as there is no ground wire, either. i cant start mine now because i stripped the starter coupling! lol all those failed attempts when it was jackhammering finally wore it out. hopefully i have it fired up tomorrow, though.

ive actually come across quite a few threads dealing with the stock ignition problems and shortcomings.

[strat1960s]

Guitarhero,

I, too, have been hearing the ignition module has been very problematic. I wish they could fire these motors up at the factory before boxing them up.

Ted

[MotorRotor]

Originally Posted by guitarherowanab

......im using a 2300mah nimh right now, as well. i was getting spark, but the engine wasnt firing, and then it stopped getting spark. my ignition is at horizon right now, so ill find out about this great customer service they supposedly have!

I have found the 2300 and 2700 NiMh packs to not have enough current handling capabilities to operate the EI adequately, and have posted so in most every forum on the G20 that I have seen.

The two biggest problems with EI units that comes with the Zenoah G20 are:

1 - the plug boot is very hard to get seated all the way onto the plug, so that it will properly conduct the high current required. Consequently some will try to run it without realizing that their plug boot is not pushed all the way in and will always have running problems until they seat it properly.

2 - the battery source used to power the EI's are not up to the task

Both of these have been noted somewhere, in most "hard starting" or "hard to get running properly" threads, in most forums, yet somehow some people seem to miss it??

Those and the improperly set throttle servo arm in relation to the throttle barrel arm are the three most items I run into at events where I help people with their helis. Yet they all claim to have not seen them mentioned on forums???

Fortunately when working with them at events, we can get them running properly, by correcting these so often overlooked and/or misunderstood set-up items.

[strat1960s]

Motor,

I've been told that the packs I'm using can't produce the current needed to get a strong spark. However, I've also been told that the packs I'm using should be ok and if I have a spark it will ignite the fuel air mixture. I do have spark at the plug.
As for the battery pack choice. Maybe Century/Zenoah needs to be more specific when it lists the type of packs it recommends or go with an ei that can handle a wider range of voltages.

Page 7 of the Zenoah manual states:
Nic battery 4.8V
1500~2700mA

Use of anything
other than an 4.8V

battery is prohibited.

Now, I'll admit that I thought I had the plug boot installed as far as I thought it could go only to discover it would go further. Before I was worried if I ever got the motor to fire the plug boot may slip off. Now I'm worried I may break something while trying to remove the plug boot from the plug.

The diagram in the Century manual shows the throttle horn facing out, away from the motor and that is how I've set mine. I've seen photos where people have the throttle horn facing the motor and a bend in their servo linage.

I'm not trying to argue with you. I guess with the ei battery, I was looking for someone to say what I had would work and went with it. The RCExcell ei that I ordered can handle a wider range of voltages (4.8v to 6.0). If I stick with the packs I have, I'll still be on the low side for voltage. Maybe I do need to look at other packs. I just hate throwing money away because if I don't use the packs on the Radikal, I don't think I can use them on my other helis.

I'll do some more research later today.
Thank you for your help.

Ted

[strat1960s]

guitarhero,

What pack are you using with your RCExcell ei?

Ted

[MotorRotor]

Originally Posted by strat1960s

.....

As for the battery pack choice. Maybe Century/Zenoah needs to be more specific when it lists the type of packs it recommends or go with an ei that can handle a wider range of voltages.

Page 7 of the Zenoah manual states:
Nic battery 4.8V
1500~2700mA

Use of anything
other than an 4.8V

battery is prohibited.


.....

The diagram in the Century manual shows the throttle horn facing out, away from the motor and that is how I've set mine. I've seen photos where people have the throttle horn facing the motor and a bend in their servo linage.

Thank you for your help.

Ted

NOTE: they have specified NiCD / 4.8V / 1500 to 2700 - NOT NiMh. That is because of the much higher current capability of NiCd over some of the lower current NiMh cells commonly purchased.

As for the throttle horn, it MUST go to the outside as illustrated in the instructions. otherwise it will be impossible to get a proper mechanical configuration with equal throw each side of center!!! If located facing the inside, the carb arm will come up against the fan shroud before an equal travel distance can be reached.