Piroflips - am I getting close?

[Otto Rotation]

Been trying to work through the basic mechanics of piroflips in Phoenix, I think I'm getting close? For some reason it's been really hard for me to get my head around them. Obviously they're sloppy but I think this is getting there?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M7onIdafkP4

[Otto Rotation]

OK now I think I'm starting to get it - closer?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FOVsp1J0jNE

[charles.frank]

From what I can see it looks like really fast 1/2 piro flips. ..
I been working on these things for along time.. just couldn't wrap my head around it for some reason..I watched Nick Maxwell's video a 100 times...I was close I thought but I could tell it just want right. I bet I tried at least 1000 times many many hours. .and finally just the other day it clicked. ..I will say when you get it right they will can be done slowly and accurately... the stirring the sticks thing is not it... go get Nick Maxwell's One tank tips " piro flips" off of you tube. . It will help alot in understanding the maneuver.
It did me. .



Sent from my Goblin while pirouetting inverted.

[ArchmageAU]

Otto Rotation,

Slow down a bit!!!

A "good" piro-flip the disc rotates in 1 plane (like flipping a pancake, plate or coin) and levels out both upright and inverted.

I have trouble making out the disc plane due to distance and speed.

I have no doubt you are consistently rotation the tail (almost at full speed), but the accuracy of the flip is WAY off.

A piro-flip is not just a timed stick stir, it is a movement to be flown through. Unless you understand what is happening at each segment (and correct for errors as it happens), the result is what you are doing.

You have a funky looking move of barely controlled full rudder anarchy, but I'd struggle to call it a piro-flip.

Re-watch the Nick Makwell vid on pirouetting flips. Also look at the dannylightning thread of "what do you think of my piro flip lesson" (https://www.helifreak.com/showthread.php?t=542074).

Not the answer you were looking for, but I hope it helps.

[Otto Rotation]

For some reason I tend to figure out stuff better when starting fast and slowing down. That said I think it would help if I slowed down the piro rate in Phoenix, it's kind of binary - either really slow or very fast.

[gitbse]

Tip #1 is slow down a bit. Make the piro speed slow enough where you can handle it.

Tip #2 is don't ever fly the TDR in phoenix again. It is so incredibly unrealistic, it makes me puke. The Aurora is the best in phoenix.

Tip#3 is watch the Nick Maxwell one tank tip again a few times.

And here, watch this. I don't have a mic to make a full tutorial video, but here's a basic of the mechanics of piro flips so you can see what they "should" look like.

Piro flip speeds (2 min 26 sec)

[Otto Rotation]

Ok, so I set aside everything I thought I understood and watched the Nick Maxwell video a bunch of times. Started over from zero. I think I have the correct transitions to each of the four orientations he described in the vid. I can keep the rotor disc flat at each point, but now I have to speed up and tie it all together...

[ame]http://youtu.be/KSlYTJoxwdU[/ame]

[gitbse]

Originally Posted by Otto Rotation

I can keep the rotor disc flat at each point, but now I have to speed up and tie it all together...

[ArchmageAU]

Originally Posted by Otto Rotation

Ok, so I set aside everything I thought I understood and watched the Nick Maxwell video a bunch of times. Started over from zero. I think I have the correct transitions to each of the four orientations he described in the vid. I can keep the rotor disc flat at each point, but now I have to speed up and tie it all together...

+1

Yes. By going slower and understanding what you are doing, you will progress MUCH faster.

What you showed in the sim is a great start. Much better than what you were doing (although less dramatic). Just start doing the 4 flips quicker and do not wait for full stabilization before continuing (just ensure you do pass through flat).

You will surprised at how fast it progresses from here.

Good work.

[Otto Rotation]

OK, sanity check - this is a correct half piro, yes? (the first 4 or 5 seconds of the vid)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2PXl6YwEzF8

[Russell Harding]

Originally Posted by Otto Rotation

OK, sanity check - this is a correct half piro, yes? (the first 4 or 5 seconds of the vid)

More piro - YouTube

Yes. Nicely done and night and day difference from the OP. A nice 1/2 piroflip extended a tad to a small rainbow like that looks and sounds great at the field.

[ArchmageAU]

Originally Posted by Otto Rotation

OK, sanity check - this is a correct half piro, yes? (the first 4 or 5 seconds of the vid)

Yes (and really well executed).

Add another one from invert to upright, you have a single piro flip. Doubles are 2 rotations per flip (or one full rotation per half flip). Triples are 3 rotations, etc...

Get a solid 1 before going more rotations per flip.

[Otto Rotation]

I think I'm getting it, trying to tighten up the second half... I think the last one is pretty close?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lu6FHvq6vys

[Russell Harding]

Rough, but yes.

s-l-o-w-e-r...

[ArchmageAU]

Actually your second and third were better than the 4th. (don't count the aborted one).

As Code3Medic said. s-l-o-w-e-r.

In Heli-X I practice in the hover circle. You could do the same in RF.

I also slow the physics down and slowly increase as I get comfortable (I also do both CW and CCW half-piro flips and full piro flips almost interchangeably). I also have fun trying piro rolls and piro flips that flip towards you.

It's both learning the timing AND understanding what is going on.

If confused, in RF you can use lockposition (no collective training in Heli-X) to understand what the inputs are doing at certain segments of the flip and to nail the cyclic timings before working on the collective toss-catch.

btw, CW and CCW piro flips "feel" different.

Persistence and you will get there.

"Slower to go faster."

[Otto Rotation]

Oh hi again, it's time for The Daily Piro.

I slowed it down, as you can see. I've actually got the exit a little better now than in this clip, but I already uploaded this one. I can really get a lot of "pop" out of the disc when going upright to inverted, but for some reason it's harder to get the same pop when going back upright.

So in my head it's basically "pop", "hang and twist", "level off."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fdv_MlDp9QI

[gitbse]

Well done, young padawan.

That looks eerily similar to when I started doing them.
You've got the hang of it. All you need now is just more stick time. The only thing you are now missing is refinement, which means you're doing really well.

[ArchmageAU]

Originally Posted by Otto Rotation

Oh hi again, it's time for The Daily Piro.

I slowed it down, as you can see. I've actually got the exit a little better now than in this clip, but I already uploaded this one. I can really get a lot of "pop" out of the disc when going upright to inverted, but for some reason it's harder to get the same pop when going back upright.

So in my head it's basically "pop", "hang and twist", "level off."

Now you got it. From here on it's practice. When you watch other do this, you will know what is going on.

You will want to try CCW (rudder left) piro flips. They feel different again. Better to learn both CW and CCW at the same time.

If you want to see what is happening with the negative vs positive. Use the recorder and play it back watching the sticks more than the heli. You may find you are not popping inverted as hard as upright. Also, the push and twist points feel different inverted (as you are pushing the centre of mass instead of pulling it).

When you get singles both ways (also sideways and backwards as well as the forwards you are doing), then it's time to start doubles. <evil grin>

[Stubbz]

looks like decent progress, i was thinking about doing a video like this last night as something clicked for me since ive tried prio flips. mainly basing off the stir to get the feeling for it but something clicked and i can control the speed now but i panick and cant get out of it. Maybe i'll post a vid n get others opinions like you did.

[ArchmageAU]

Just did a quick record this morning of my status. Heli-X save (may need help to convert to video).

Attached in the usual way (.mov file, save as .zip, unpack into the resources/flights directory).

Look forward to comments.