Mini titan question please

[Falcorma]

Hello helifreaks,
So my mini titan is coming a long way. But I'm still not 100%satisfied. I've seen Vids of guys hovering in the air and then giving hard pitch positive and negative and over and over and their helis pop up and down like crazy fast. I have a mini titan with a jgf500th and a 13 pinion. Align carbon blades. Why can't my helis do this? Like it's not even very close. I have 11 degrees of pitch both ways. No way can I jump up and down like they do. What am I missing? Could my cyclic servos be too weak to move the pitch that fast? I want to have insane yoyo power.

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[scottward]

Governor gain too low? Maybe battery related, but as far as I'm aware typical 3s1p bats will be ok.

[Falcorma]

I'm not running governed. 100% throttle in idle up. Do bigger or wider blades help? How do I know if my servos can handle hard 3d? And my lipos are 45c thunder powers. Should give plenty of power.

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[Scott Bowersox]

good batteries and ESC and put a 14t pinion on it. That's a lower kv motor so it needs a bit more gear for crazy headspeed. amp draw will increase and flight time will decrease of course but your yo yos will be crisper. Also can go to 4s

If you try using less collective that will help as well. Servos won't travel as far and will change direction a hair quicker and you'll keep more energy in the blades by bogging less. Quick short throws will speed it up.

Basically put more energy in or take less out.

[Falcorma]

Does a better esc make a big difference? I have the stock 40a ace one. What would improve by switching to say an Cc ice 50?

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[Scott Bowersox]

If the ESC is not rated to push the current the motor is demanding then it is an issue as it will get hot and not live a long and happy life or limit the output power or both. A 40 amp ESC like you mentioned will be fine as people use 35 amp esc quite often without issue. I didn't know what ESC you were using so that is why I mentioned it.

[Falcorma]

I'm using the ace 40a esc. I'm just expecting way more pitch changing speed. Do I have the wrong blades on for 3d? I have the align black ones

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[Scott Bowersox]

well, those blades will be fine. Another thing to consider is after checking spec on your ESC it is only putting out 5 volts to the servos. Most servos run faster and more torque with 6 volts . What servos are you running? If they are designed to run on 6 volts, you would get more performance by adding a BEC that will run 6 volts. Should speed things up a smidge and better holding power. I'm not saying that will get you where you want to be but something to consider. An external BEC is a good idea anyway and cheaper than getting a new ESC.

[Falcorma]

I have the stock ace c1016 servos


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[B335]

Those servos, while they are "capable" of 3D in the TT promo videos, are quite fragile and are known to strip teeth in the most minor of shunts.

With much of the Mini Titan, some of the parts are sufficient to "get you by" but not anything extreme. How fast you can do pitch pumps is purely determined by how fast your servos can move. You might want to look at upgrading them to something like the Hitec HS65MGs or better.

[cardinal43]

A year ago, I was in your same boat looking for more power and punch from my MT SE (metal head and tail).

First things first – from what I’ve heard 4s will always be stronger than 3s. That being said you can still get a 3s setup to rip, especially with your nice TP packs. I did not want to buy new lipos so my experience and opinions are based on 3s with my hyperion 45c 2100 lipos.

From a servo standpoint, the stock ace servos and especially the ace tail servo were weak. I replaced them immediately. I have been running the Hitech HS65MG servos for 2 years and they have survived dozens of crashes. 25+ rough crashes. Never had a servo issue over 300 flights. They are fast and durable. I would recommend them highly. I am running a Futaba S9257 in the tail which was also a great upgrade for better tail control. I am running a Futaba 401 gyro. I know there are better options than a 401, but for me it seems to do very well. I think I may run into issues with the 401 when I start doing backwards flight, but I am not there yet. It works well.

I upgraded to the JGF500th and it was an improvement over the stock SE motor. It didn't take long though to smoke the ACE 40a ESC mid-flight doing repeated punchouts. I upgraded to the Castle ICE Lite 50. That ESC has worked very well with no issues. I have been using the internal switching BEC with 5.5 amps to the servos.

At the end of day the JGF500th didn't get me to the level of "punch" and "yo-yo" that you are seeking. I stuck with a 13t pinion though, so maybe your best bet would be to upgrade to a 14t pinion with the JGF500th, before looking at another motor??

I upgraded to the Scorpion 2221-8 with a 13t pinion on 3s. Along with the CC ICE Lite 50, the Scorpion 2221-8 is a stronger motor than the JGF500th in my opinion. You should definitely stick with the carbon blades as Align 325mm woodies flexed way too much and led to poor flight characteristics. The carbon blades are not only safer, but they just plain fly better. I have really enjoyed the 2221-8 so far. With set rpm governor mode (set to 3050rpm), I cannot bog it, it comes down cool after 4 min flights, and has been a great improvement. Given what you say you are looking for, I would recommend this setup for 3s.

Another option you have on 3s is the Scorpion 2221-6. It is stronger than the -8. I was told that I should stay away from the -6 since only the best heli setups could handle those levels of power without self-destructing….I remain tempted to get the -6 someday…..but, again, given what I think you are looking for the 2221-8 should definitely make you happy. (assuming a 14t with the JGF500th doesn’t get you there) If you end up getting a -6 someday, PM me with your thoughts on how it works….

[cardinal43]

PS - make sure you get your ESC settings correct. I messed mine up with the 2221-8 and it ran poorly initially. If you ever need my Castle Link settings, PM me and I'll send them you what I've got. I've got it dialed in now.

PPS - on another post, some other user put this up. Maybe a less expensive option if you want to try something different for cheap?

I am using this and I am really satisfied!
Great power!
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...or_3700kv.html

[Falcorma]

Thanks for all your teriffic info! I currently am running your exact setup, servos and all. Except I'm still on the jgf500th. Also I now have the regular ice 50 not the light one. I've been waiting to find someone who has experience with the 500 and if they can compare it to another motor. So you really thing upgrading to the 2228 made a big difference? And can it run 4s if I e er decide to upgrade?

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[cardinal43]

I would try a 14t pinion on the jgf500 before giving up on it. I never did that and I may have over heated it and damaged it. So maybe 14t would get you what you're looking for?

2221-8 was not designed for 4s. It might be possible, but probably would ruin the motor eventually. You can get more info from scorpions website, but I think you want a 2221-10 for 4s.

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[fenderstrat]

at the speeds the servos are running they move way faster than you can react.while yes plastic gears can be weaker the ace servos should be moving plenty fast to do what you want.are metal gears more durable yes but they dont add speed.

to get what you are trying to accomplish you need more pitch in the main blades,that and headspeed are going to give you that "pop" or quick direction change.

I'd be willing to bet most of the videos you have seen and are trying to duplicate are running really high headsppeds and 12-14 deg of pitch.and if the heli can do it I'd bet most are closer to 13-14 deg

you have to be carefull when using lots of collective pitch that you dont use too much cyclic at the same time but extreme pitch can be used on both if you are not jamming the sticks in the corners all the time

go up 1 tooth on the pinion and go with 13 deg pitch and you will see a huge difference

[helicopter1]

Originally Posted by Falcorma

Hello helifreaks,
So my mini titan is coming a long way. But I'm still not 100%satisfied. I've seen Vids of guys hovering in the air and then giving hard pitch positive and negative and over and over and their helis pop up and down like crazy fast. I have a mini titan with a jgf500th and a 13 pinion. Align carbon blades. Why can't my helis do this? Like it's not even very close. I have 11 degrees of pitch both ways. No way can I jump up and down like they do. What am I missing? Could my cyclic servos be too weak to move the pitch that fast? I want to have insane yoyo power.

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First of all to get the heli to have the pop you are looking for you have to put the metal head on so there will be no flexing in the plastic parts (the stock plastic head feels mushy on pitch pumps). The stock esc should be fine and the next thing you need is a good motor (scorpion 8 should be fine) and a head speed over 3000 rpm's.

I don't know the power and the kv of your motor so I can't tell you if that is good enough for what you want maybe someone else who has it can tell you.
Can you post a video of a mini titan that has the power you are looking for?

[Falcorma]

My flybarless kit should be here today thanks for all the help! This should solve my problems. Also I am running a 14t pinion too

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