Mixing Aileron in fast maneuvers

[jmtyndall]

I've slowed down my sim sessions and noticed that in fast maneuvers, namely Tic-Tocs, I'm mixing in a little left aileron as I pull back on the stick. I fly thumbs, I can't do pinch. I tried to learn but it didn't work. Is it possible to train this out by trying to focus on pulling straight, or giving a small right input, then eventually I get it right? Or perhaps tightening/loosening the sticks will help?

If anyone has had this issue and a resolution please let me know. My tic tocs are starting to look good, except that I start disk in and end up side-in in a few seconds!!!

[Russell Harding]

Practice.

You will have to do micro adjustments to all maneuvers, especially in real life where the air is less stable than the sim. You're doing the right thing by slowing the sim down.

Another thing to keep in mind is the effect of tail rotor thrust. I'm assuming you're doing tail down, skids out tic tocs... On a standard CW main rotor heli, there will be strong TR thrust blowing right, moving the heli left. To keep your heli stationary, you will need to point the nose slightly right, usually about 5*. Then pulling perfectly straight on the cyclic will keep your heli put.

I'd practice at slow speed with corrections as needed. Over time it will improve. Tic tocs are very hard. It is easy to slam a few tic tocs on the sim, but on a real heli you'll need proper setup, power, collective management, and the ability to add tiny corrections for continuous tic-tocs.

[jmtyndall]

I couldnt get a decent video. I am doing tail down, skids out tic tocs. More precisely I have the largest issue with that. The issue isnt translation to the left, as much as it is rotation around the "z-axis".

Ive noticed what you are saying. I am getting close to behing able to hold them for a while, but I can't do.fast, tight tic tocs like the pros. Not sure how to speed it up.

[blade450]

Practice rainbows. You will learn how to correct the aileron in the rainbows, and then it is a small step to correct it in a tic toc too.
And of course there is nothing that can replace good old practice, lots of it.

Edit: I just want to add: for a good looking tic toc it might not be necessary to not give aileron input at all. My advise, fly the tic toc, don't rely on stick movements to fly the tic toc. Don't try to move elevator perfectly straight from top to bottom and back, look at the helicopter and try to fly the tic toc straight instead.

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[LN400]

One thing that can work is to just grab the tx whenever you're watching tv or anything like that and just work on feeling the detents and how the thumbs move, focus on it in the beginning and work towards less and less focus.

If your tx has a channel monitor, you can up the game quite a bit by trying to move the sticks to a predetermined position off the detents and verify how close you got by looking at the monitor AFTER you've moved them.

And the above advice about rainbows is an excellent one.

Another way that works with all the above is to think "positive pitch pulls the disc away from the heli. Negative pitch pushes the disc towards the heli and where the mast is pointing is where you'll pull and push the heli". Like mentioned above, tiny corrections are needed. If the heli shows a tendency to drift, try spot where you need to point the mast to push or pull the heli back on track. It is possible to do stationary tic tocs with the nose pointing straight up or in any direction for that matter. It's all down to accurate cyclic work and a good eye for tiny details.

[FailureToFly]

The easy way is to do tic tocs and mini rainbows slowly and stop briefly at each 'point' to make sure you're doing them straight.

You will quickly see where you are going off and can start working on correcting your technique and speeding them up.

Tic tocs are seen to be an easy technique but in reality they are a 2 year process to nail all the permutations. They are also best done (again IMHO) pivoting from the tail case as this teaches you loads about collective mgt and it's also more difficult to boot.

[jmtyndall]

I feel like I haven't made any progress in the last two weeks. If I slow it down and do rainbows or half flips I am fine, but as I try to speed up I'm giving too much collective or too little collective, or my timing is wrong and the heli shoots all over the sky.

I'm just going to dedicate 10 minutes a day to tic tocs and see if I can make any improvement. And I thought learning to hover inverted was hard!

[blade450]

Originally Posted by jmtyndall

I feel like I haven't made any progress in the last two weeks. If I slow it down and do rainbows or half flips I am fine, but as I try to speed up I'm giving too much collective or too little collective, or my timing is wrong and the heli shoots all over the sky.

I'm just going to dedicate 10 minutes a day to tic tocs and see if I can make any improvement. And I thought learning to hover inverted was hard!

That is the spirit. It mostly is a matter of practice. It is hard, but with enough practice you will master it. Do you also slow the sim down and do tic tocs in slow motion? It feels weird, but it should help you correct .
Keep up the practice, I'm sure you will get better.

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