3G vs V-Bar vs SJGD/Axiom

[HiroboFreak]

This stuff works very well.

[rotorstart]

gtrick90,

Any update on the SJGD FS600? Is it a one-unit setup like the gyrobot 900 or two-unit setup like the v-bar and the Align 3G? I really like the one-unit setup, much less wire hanging around that way.

Thanks.

[gorn]

FS600 is one unit.
Its very tall though, about the same height as a JR 770 gyro.
Servo leads exit out the top.

[rotorstart]

Thanks gorn,

Does it have a computer interface or only configured by TX sticks? If a computer software is available, can users share the profile setup with each other or viewed by the computer? This would be a great help for users to assist others.

[gorn]

There is a hand held programmer included with the FS600.
Pretty well all changes are made through this, besides basics like pitch and throttle curves etc etc.
There will be a USB link and software released soon.
There is also 4 flight banks that you can programme, much like the Vstabi.
However you can only use 2 in flight, these are switched via your gain channel.
I have not played with this yet, so I have limited info.
Piro optimization is being worked on now, they are hoping to release that as a download after the USB and software becomes available.

Honestly though, Im correcting pretty well the same amount as a flybarred heli during piro moves.
Stationary slow piro's, piro circuits.
Have not tried my piro flips or piro funnels with it yet.
Still coming to grips with how different flybarless feels vs flybar.
Its not bad, just different, and is taking me a little longer to adjust to different timing (this thing is FAST) and feel.

[gtrick90]

3G update:

I've tried a stiffer tape on the 3G unit installed on my GAUI 425 and lowered the gains ALMOST TO ZERO .

The heli now is flyable (it is fast and powerful obviously w/o flybar) but the elevator bobble is stil there...with so lower gains when you make an hard stop the elevator bounces back..very odd!!

As I said before in another 3ad, the feeling is very notchy, the commands are not linear with the hely movements.....

And after 3 packs of lipos I've experienced two tail kicks during flight (I've a s9256 on tail).

Tomorrow I'll test the SJGD FS600 on the same TRex 700 I'vce used with the 3G....I'll let you know...

Ciao

[gtrick90]

Align 3G on TRex 700 update:

we've made the following changes:
Changed the double sided foam with a very thin tape.
Changed the blades with the SAB 710mm (0226)
Dialled the ELEVATOR GAIN almost to ZERO
Dialled the AILERONS GAIN at about 9/9.30 o'clock
The hely now feels much better!!!!!
On hard stops the elevator bobble is almost not noticeable (is still there but you can live with it now) and overall the hely is very good with a very powerful collective.
As I said before, the 3G unit is very sensitive to the mechanical setup of the hely, so to find the right setup you MUST experiment with mechanical changes.

On the 3G I think the 'ticket' is to have a difference of about 20/25% between AILERONS and ELEVATOR gains (with ELEVATOR gain on the lower side).


SJGD/AXIOM FS-600 v2 on TRex 700

I've installed the FS600v2 on the same TRex 700 I've used with the 3G Align (all the same 'hardware').

On first startup I'v noticed too much elevator/ailerons vibrations....
I've changed the PU Gel with a very thin double sided tape and strapped it down.

Restart the engine and go again in flight...

What I can say? WwowW!!!

The hely is almost perfect on first flight with no strange behaiovur.
The stops are sharp with no bobbles or vibrations.
The cyclic speed is very good and so the stability but the collective command is not powerful like the 3G.

Following the setup:

SWPL MIXER RATE
---------------
AILE-RAT 100
ELEV-RAT 105
PITC-RAT 040
CYCL-LMT 300


SWPL GAIN FEEDBK
----------------
AIL-GAIN 026
ELE-GAIN 026
AIL-FEED 003
ELE-FEED 003
AILLSTOP 100
AILRSTOP 100
ELELSTOP 100
ELERSTOP 100

Collective +/- 12,5°
Cyclic +/- 11,5°

I need some more flights to fine tune the system trying different parameters values.

Ciao

[gorn]

gtrick
I am running almost the same settings as you.
My gain on ele and ail is up to 34%.
I am using 1 piece of Zeal, metal plate, 1 piece of Align PU gel, strapped down tight.
I have less cyclic than you as well, at 210 I have 9 deg.
I needed to reduce my ail and ele stop gain to 85%, as it would shake a little bit of very fast stops.

Great reviews you are doing, very interesting.

Cheers

[Spork01]

gtrick90...Thank you for your review. I find it very helpful. keep up the good work!

[npap]

Have you make others flights with the Axiom FBL system?
I am interested in it and would like to know more about it.....A video should be perfect

Thanks
Norbert

[perfeet]

Thanks for an interesting thread and review

I read the thread through and must say I am a little dissapointed with what I read so far about the Align 3G.

In the review it states "Simply to setup", but it took lots of tweaking / experimenting to get it to fly good. I won't call that simple? Alot of less experienced pilots would be very frustrated it they experienced something like this.

The VBar is basically plug and play compared to this. It flew perfect on the first flight on my Trex 500 on default settings with no additional need for tweaking.

And I wonder why some people are so excited over the flybarred feel of the 3G-unit? The strong side of most flybarless systems, is that you don't need to do the additional corrections like in a flybar heli.

But I guess it comes down to taste ("analog" vs "digital" feel)

[edge]

I flew the 3G today on my T-500 for the first time. I was expecting to have to do some tweaking, but was pleasantly surprised. It was very simple to setup and It flew rock solid. I had to make no adjustments to anything. The tracking was spot on, and there was no drift, bounce, or other bad behavior. The tail actually felt better in some respects than the Spartan. I have not as yet pushed the bird hard, and even when I do I may not notice some of the traits others have voiced concern over, given my less mature skill level. But for me at this early stage of use, I think the 3G performs as advertised and I really like it! It makes the T-500 fly like it is on rails, and it responds instantly. The only other bird I have had over many many years of flying that felt so stable and at the same time responsive, was a 36% Edge 540. I can't wait for warmer weather!

[OICU812]

that's good Edge. Something for many to understand is you need to fly/try other systems before you know what is better and different. I haven't flown a Gyrobot since they came out but have flown everything else, fs6000, ac3x, 3G etc..., tinkered etc to get best performance. Yes I am biased but I can say without a doubt that even now with recent competition, nothing comes close to the Vbar in regards to total connectivity and tuneability. You can use whatever blades you like, put in 8.4 volts etc there are no magic blades, no bad wobbles or wierdness...

[bkervaski]

I bought a new 700 3G kit and flew it last weekend with the Align 3G unit. It did great, but the tail authority wasn't good at all and there were a lot of tendencies in manuevers that I didn't expect.

This weekend I installed a VBar and can say it's a lot better than the Align unit and you can tweak everything to your flying preferences. The 700 preset works great for a plug and play config. However, if you're not using the presets, the software can get a bit complicated as there is so much you can change.

In comparrison, the VBar flew through all of my "go to" maneuvers without any weird tendencies and the tail authority is more comparable to a Spartan gyro.

In fairness, the Align system is still a version 1.0, so I bet with some firmware updates it will get a lot better, assuming they can work out the manufacturing issues and possibly beef up the power system. VBar is 4.0, so it's a bit more mature.

I understand they have a VBar P-n-P coming out that will be significantly reduced in price but for just a specific heli with limited software to compete with the Align units. To me, this would be the way to go.

Oh, and with the next VBar update, there will be an integrated governor. The units are already setup for them.

[Dr Daniel]

The V-Bar plays in another legaue then Align, nothing strange about that. V-bar has been around a couple of years, and where not exactly great at revision 1-3 either.

Align made a misstake with the 3G unit, they should have stayed with BeastX.

How about the Axiom/SJGD units? I hear they are everything from great to tuning problems? Whats the deal here?

[gorn]

The SJGD works fine now.
The first lot of software was rubbish.
They are now on version 2.0, which is streets better than before.
They are working on the next revision now, which will include Piro Optimization and Tail Torque compensation.
Im sure there will be other things, not sure on details.
They are also releasing PC connectivity for firmware updates.

[Dr Daniel]

Well, i tried my v2 system today, but it was everything but stable.
My settings are:

AIL/ELE GAIN: 32/35
AIL/ELE FEED: 3/3

I tried to change the feed from 1 to 15, and the higher % got better.
Now its just to quick and unstable.
Have you changed anything in the radio like D/L rates? Expo?

[gorn]

changing ail and ele RATE makes it feel like adding or removing expo.
Anything over 120 felt very twitchy.
Mine is at 120, but at 100 or 110 it was much calmer, but not as snappy as I wanted.
So I comprimised at 120.
Feed is at 3, and my gains are lower than yours at about 25.
For some reason, when I switched to the Mikado 700 conversion, I had to drop the gain or it would shake a bit.
With the RJX head, which had less grip offset, I could run a gain of 33 easily, and even had it at 36 for a little while.

I am going to play around with the feed settings as well, as I havent put much time into that particular part for testing.

What heli is this on?

[Dr Daniel]

Its on a T500.

I will repair and try again.
Have you moved in the balllinks on the servos to gain resolution?
Mine was very close to unflyable, needed constant controll to keep level in a hover.
When trying flips and tic/tocs it was extremly fast.

I´ve read that some people use a very thin tape to mount the gyro for better results.
I have been using the stock tape with metalplate. Maybe it flexes to much?

[gorn]

Yes I have moved the balls inward on my servo horns.
Servo resolution is very important.

Mine is on a Trex 700N.

Im using one layer of Zeal gel tape, then metal plate, then one layer of Align PU gel tape.
The gyro is then strapped down fairly tight so it cant wobble.

Personally, on a smaller electric, just try one layer of the thick tape.
Do put a strap over it though.
If its able to wobble in flight, it will do some weird things lol.

I have a pic of how mine is mounted in my Runryder gallery.
Same user name as here