2.1 update absolutely causing problems!!

[darrenwootton]

T-Rex500 fix

The last time I flew my 500 I had standard carbon tail blades and align carbon tail fin so i decided to add some bling bling to it starting with yellow undercarriage and tail fin with yellow plastic tail blades all with a nice new canamod canopy, all looked nice i already had 3g v.1 on my 500 but never got to fly it with the new parts installed.

The 3g v2.1 update.

So I updated the 3g to v2.1 and went down the field to try and it was so so bad you could not fly it, it was so unstable the tail was jumping all over the place and it was twitching all over the place. So i updated the unit again to no avail, it was not until i tried to hover iy in the garden that i noticed the new extra long tail fan was vibrating about 1inch from left to right so i changed to the standard align tail fin and this time it was a bit better, the next day i went down the field with a friend to try but it was no good. Then we looked at the tail blades and they was not very stiff but a bit bendy so i put the align carbon blades back on and i also changed the gyro mount to a softer foam pad, and this time my 500 was a different machine it was a lot better, next i put my 500 on my laptop and made some small changes in the software and boom it was awesome the tail was spot on no more Wagg or bounce and on a full Climb Out fill power with 14 deg of pitch it had no interaction what so ever, I’ve had 10 flights the last two days and I’m loving my flying now betting better each flight and doing more new moves

[dale-pabajo]

I ask my self could all these issues with the 3G due to crappy hardware used the 3G?mostly everyone I know that owns a 3G where I live work very well except for some tail issues,but my two units did'nt work from jump st.

[jeffreydc]

The glitch I am having with version 2.1 has nothing to do with the tail. It is a random glitch in the swashplate movement that temporarily causes it to twitch and send the helicopter out of control in random directions.

It has nothing to do with:

batteries
servos
receiver
gyro mount
motor
wiring
mechanical setup
3g setup

Like I have said before, if any of the above were the problem version 2.0 would not work so well. Its either a corrupted 3g system or something wrong with the update and default settings.

[FrozenOne]

Mine flew "worse" going from 2.0 to 2.1. I think the 2.1 settings had a gain changes in the unit. I corrected it back to the version 2.0 flight performace by bumping up my rudder gain almost 10 points, strapping the sensor down as tight as I could with a single Align pad and resetting my gain pots starting at 12:00 and dialing them down to perfection. I had a hell of a time with the unit when breaking in a new 91 due to the rich engine vibrations. Tail was all over the place and kicking which has never happened to me before.

I don't think it's poor hardware as people looking inside the units have commented that the sensors are top notch. The rest of the electronics should be fine and it would come down to programming.

I think there are just too many variables to call it "Plug & Play". "Plug, Tune & Play" is more like it.

[jondabear]

Too bad . My best suggestions are already given, backed by a bit of study and research,
Good luck with it.

BTW- Differences in 2.0 and 2.1 COULD POSSIBLY cause HUGE differences even with being more demanding on hardware.....but, Like I said. Good luck.
Keep her away from people and outta terra firma.

[scnsaracer]

Last weekend I updated the 3G on my Outrage G5 from v1 to 2.1. As per the Align instructions, I set the dials back to 1200. The only adjustment I made was to drop the tail gain (in radio) down about 5 points as I was getting some wag. After that it is awesome. That being said, V1 worked ok as well but I think 2.1 is better and I havent even started tweaking it yet.

[jeffreydc]

So jondabear, are you saying that too high a gain would cause RANDOM erratic swashplate movement? Wouldn't it be more consistent and predictable if it were just gain? I hope you are right and I think I may give it a try again this weekend based on what you have said. So what gains would you suggest tuning down besides the tail?

[dale-pabajo]

I really can'nt say what is wrong with some 3G's but my two units where really messed-up did'nt even get to fly them they did everything wrong on the bench.
Align put's out the first up-date then a second and now a third in less than a month.
somebody is'nt doing there homework.

[FrozenOne]

The update this month was to correct windows programming issues and does not appear to have anything to do with the FBL unit firmware. If anything it's good to know they are still on top of things.

As far as the random swash plate jumps, I still believe thats kicks caused by certain mixtures of gain settings and vibrations. People do see the kicks more often on the tail but gain for the tail is completely separate and the rudder sensor over all is more sensitive compared to cyclic.

Speculation based on observations......

[jondabear]

Heres the logic..........V2.1 or even 2.0 software seems to make our helis react quicker, fly better, feel more locked in, etc etc etc.
The software has definately changed since v1.1.

Why do you think our helis "FEEL better" than they used to?

Software is demanding more of our electronics.

Heres an analogy.........I have a ball........I ask you to catch the ball......Simple task and you can do it 100 times a day.(V1.1)

Very simple duty and depending on alot of other factors, You may or may not catch it ALL 100 times.

Then comes (V2.0,2.1) The day when I actually realize you can do more(Always known it, just never taught ya how), And I show you how to juggle a few balls, .....................While standing on a seesaw...............while Im throwing water balloons at ya(would b funny to see?)..

You arfe able to accomplish all these tasks because you are fit for the task(no crashed servos, no replaced gears, lipo fairly new etc etc etc..)

If not.....you would probably outta breath and have trouble with a few of the things I have taught ya to do.

Its just an anallogy, but I hope ate the very least ,it gets a few people thinking.

Ever met a guy with a 600 mikado SE? I got a friend who has a couple. He is what I would call a "special" kind of rc heli guy. Servos dead band beyond 5% tolerance? its in the trash. Link didnt thread on perfectly tyo match the other one? Hes making another. Get the point?

His helis fly like they are on rails and we are commonly flying them(when I see him) in the high 80-90 mph range .(BIG SKY ).

Im not saying that we should be as ANAL as my bud but.............if theres ANYTHING even slightly wrong with any part of your CHAIN of electronics.........A FBL system will definately make a point to point it out to ya.

Long story short........Play with your TOTAL gain adjustments and get em as low as you can afford to, then adjust your rates in your radio to recover a bit of resolution.
Too high a gain will cause things to fail very prematurely. If ya got wrecked or older equipment thats not up to the task, itll be even worse.

Doing a test on 2 helis rt now. One with 610's run a HV and the other with 650's run at HV. Im guessing that the 650's are gna last longer because they are MADE for extremely High frame rate correction ,as thgey are a dedicated TAIL SERVO.

Just some research Im still doing though.

BTW, before i had a 8717 HV fail, it was causing my head to jump around like that.
Did it once with a new serv o, Played with total gains adj. and havent had it since.

Believe me, I feel the pain! I would hate for it to GLITCH on me as Im doing one of my signature 3foot in front o ur face-eye level 85mph tail in HURRICANES.

PAINFUL to say the least. Needless to say , im not doing those anymore till I make SURE that everything is SOLID.

HOPE THIS HELPS SOMEONE!

PEACE! The BEAR!

[akamullen]

What heli are you using the 650's on cyclic? Those servos are FAST on HV so that would be insane on cyclc. Keep us posted on your results with those on cyclic... Also was going to bump my 650 tail servo up to HV on my 550E tail, do you think that would be ok on the tail, or would the servo fail from all the work?

[dale-pabajo]

Originally Posted by FrozenOne

The update this month was to correct windows programming issues and does not appear to have anything to do with the FBL unit firmware. If anything it's good to know they are still on top of things.

As far as the random swash plate jumps, I still believe thats kicks caused by certain mixtures of gain settings and vibrations. People do see the kicks more often on the tail but gain for the tail is completely separate and the rudder sensor over all is more sensitive compared to cyclic.

Speculation based on observations......

Frozen I'm just really disappointed at my two 3G units,if one would have been messed-up I would accept that but both units witch nither got off the ground,that's just plain stupid I'm not giveing up on my 3G's because I know they have to work correctly.
everybody I know here that has one have'nt had to many issues except for some random tail kick's.
but for mine not to work from the start is hard to belive.
I just hope when my newer units are returned to me that I have 0 issues with it and just enjoy flying it.
and honda those 650's on cyclic really sound's intresting

[HiroboFreak]

2 out of 2 being faulty has to be 1 in a million.
Are you 100% certain it's not a setup/configuration error?

I suppose you'll find out when you fire up the new units.
If they're still no good then I'd be looking somewhere other than the 3G units themselves.

[dale-pabajo]

Originally Posted by HiroboFreak

2 out of 2 being faulty has to be 1 in a million.
Are you 100% certain it's not a setup/configuration error?

I suppose you'll find out when you fire up the new units.
If they're still no good then I'd be looking somewhere other than the 3G units themselves.

I said the same thing how could to units have problems, my first unit tail would only work in heading lock mode and had an inverted polarity cable (cable from gyro to controller).
second unit tail worked fine but the cyclic would correct backwards,I would go over the whole set-up again and if elevator was correcting backwards aileron would be correcting ok but then I would go and correct elevator and when I would check aileron would correct in the wrong direction.every time I would correct a surface it would automaticly incorrect the other surface.is this wierd yes very!
sent both units back will check when I recive my new ones.

[jondabear]

650' s = 600 se fbl.
Not much in the way of tork, so they are on my SMALLER heli.

[jondabear]

650 fail? I will guess......not.

HV is more efficient in every way possible.

Wait till you see what the auto industry holds for the engineering of the future..

Much like we are seeing flybarless take its infant steps toward the mass public...................wait till you see the 48 and 96 volt systems in our newer vehicles.

The "Tech" is already there, its just "becoming" cost effective thats gna be a bit harder.

AHHHH....... the growing pains of new tech!.

My mom always wondered what I was gna b when I would take apart my toys....................and then improve em and put em back together.

Fun, Fun, Fun! Peace!

[inferno1979]

jondabear Are you suggesting i should try ds520s or 9650s on my 500 ESP 3G cyclic instead of stock 510s?
I too have the cyclic kick, and have arrowed it down on the bench to the 3g controler unit. I have played with the unit gains, unit and gyro off the heli on the bench, it kicks when plugged in even with throttle hold etc.

Only way to stop it is remove the controller and fit servos to rx again.

I upgraded my v2 to 2.1, but didnt try to fly on v2.

Are there any newer updates?

Glad to see im not the only one cursing my 500!!!

[jondabear]

I would buy the best and fastest servos that money could afford me. I will be setting up a 500 3g setup soon and insisted thst my customer buy the JR3500g's for the cyclic. It has been an educated guess soo far, but I believe that my GUESS will produce some results in the realm of LONGEVITY.

PEACE!

[akamullen]

Hey jondabear, would you ever run a 650 on 2s for the tail on a 700E or do you think 8.4v would be too much for the 650 on a 700E tail?

[jeffreydc]

For those interested what the version 2.1 update did to my 3g I posted a video of it on youtube. You can see the swash jump pretty hard a couple of times during the 20 sec or so clip. You can see it at 7 sec and 17 sec into the clip. The heli is completely still and there is no wind at all so it has nothing to do with the sensor mounting or movement. My hands are completely off the transmitter as well. when I went back to 2.0 this glitch goes away. It does not affect my tail at all as others have reported.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rd5EzkUVQOA[/ame]