All over the place for height in hover???

[banditpowdercoat]

Does it with these Edge FBL, and the cheap Pro3D carbons as well as FG blades.

This heli allways done this. I got it used, but have completely rebuilt it and head is all new. Servos have all had new gears and cases.
I can't remember if it was as bad when FB, I know it was really up/down when 3-5ft above the ground.

maybe a BeastX issue and need to redo it. Ugh. I spent hrs doing it the first time. I have thought about swapping the BX from my Blade, but then there's 2 helis to reset up hahah.
Gotta clean my workbench off first, that will take 6hrs just to get to it LMAO. Storage Exploded in my Heli room!!!

[desertstalker]

Are the links OK in the cold, could they have stiffened up and be binding somewhere?

Might be worth levying the heli outside for a while then examining it, see if that shows something.

[banditpowdercoat]

After that flight I cycled Heli, Pitch and cyclic, all smooth like inside the house. Baffling to say the least. My Blade is set up the same, BX and Edge FBL blades. Not even a hint of this

[mattmezz]

This isn't the only heli you have, right? this is the only one that does this?

[banditpowdercoat]

Originally Posted by mattmezz

This isn't the only heli you have, right? this is the only one that does this?

Correct

[mattmezz]

I’m using the edge 473 blades on a stretched carbon kit. It’s not as sharp as it was with the radix blades, it still doesn’t act like that, but I’m in sunny Huntington Beach. Tricky… it couldn’t be the heli, and I’m sure you’re not the only one that flies in the cold. Maybe your micro beast set up? Gain settings, cyclic servo settings… what’s up with the mbeast? Have you upgreaded it lately? Cause I’ve had problems with upgrading. I had to do a bunch of stuff to get it working right again. Maybe vibes causing the cyclic gyros to flip out, like the cyclic equivalent of tail wag…. don’t know, like I said before I have never seen this before….

[mattmezz]

try this... flip the micro beast on its side and do the whole set up over and try it out... or maybe reset to factory and do the set up again.

[banditpowdercoat]

Ya maybe setting up on side. Would prove a Gyro or software issue? it's updated the same as the other BX I have. No vibes, blades all ballanced. Tail is smooth. I'll try a re setup where it is first before I move it though

[Dr. M]

I agree this is very strange. I have no clue what could possibly be happening, so here's a random thought: it could be ESD weirdness. Do you have your tail grounded? If not, it would be worth trying - ensure electrical continuity between the tail shaft and motor mount.

Check this out:https://www.helifreak.com/showpost.p...&postcount=928

[alexf1852]

I really don't think it is a beastx issue. At least in my case it isn't. I've seen this issue when I had my Mini-Vbar on one of my Protos. I see this from time to time on my Logo 600 depending on my collective management. And I'm going to guess that VRS is less noticeable on smaller rotors. Maybe that's why you don't see it on your smaller heli. I've started noticing how much collective I'm using when I start to see this issue happen and I can see it happen more often if I stop my collective movement in one direction too early near center. I'm thinking you want to go higher than +- 4 degrees before stopping the collective movement in one direction and then reverse direction. I dunno. Just my thoughts.

[mattmezz]

Originally Posted by alexf1852

I really don't think it is a beastx issue. At least in my case it isn't. I've seen this issue when I had my Mini-Vbar on one of my Protos. I see this from time to time on my Logo 600 depending on my collective management. And I'm going to guess that VRS is less noticeable on smaller rotors. Maybe that's why you don't see it on your smaller heli. I've started noticing how much collective I'm using when I start to see this issue happen and I can see it happen more often if I stop my collective movement in one direction too early near center. I'm thinking you want to go higher than +- 4 degrees before stopping the collective movement in one direction and then reverse direction. I dunno. Just my thoughts.

I don’t think it’s a microbeast issue either. I’m very confident with the abilities of the MB. There is one way to rule it out though. It’s just I’m trying to help in every way I know how. I have never seen or even heard of vrs or anthing like this on a miniature air craft. Sound like you will have the best advice since you have seen it…

[Dr. M]

the Protos is a light and powerful bird. IMO settling with power is all but nonexistant. I guess if you really tried you could enter into a VRS, but you should be able to power out of it with no trouble at all. Think of it this way: you can do pitch pumps on these birds. If the bird can power out of a full -ve collective descent, you should be able to get out of any VRS as if it did not happen.

Look at how fast some of the descents in this video are and how crisp they stop with a little collective kick.
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W1bY9UufJTw[/ame]

[desertstalker]

Originally Posted by Dr. M

the Protos is a light and powerful bird. IMO settling with power is all but nonexistant. I guess if you really tried you could enter into a VRS, but you should be able to power out of it with no trouble at all. Think of it this way: you can do pitch pumps on these birds. If the bird can power out of a full -ve collective descent, you should be able to get out of any VRS as if it did not happen.

If you were experiencing VRS then more power would INCREASE descent speed not reduce it. You cant power out of it. Also that video did not show any significant descent that could induce VRS. The video makes it look mechanical to me, as though the pilot was over-compensating on collective.

[wbefield]

when I first started flying my protos, I had the same problem.. it was just my thumbs since I was not used to how sensitive this bird is.

[Mixmaster Pilot]

Originally Posted by Dr. M

the Protos is a light and powerful bird. IMO settling with power is all but nonexistant. I guess if you really tried you could enter into a VRS, but you should be able to power out of it with no trouble at all. Think of it this way: you can do pitch pumps on these birds. If the bird can power out of a full -ve collective descent, you should be able to get out of any VRS as if it did not happen.

Look at how fast some of the descents in this video are and how crisp they stop with a little collective kick.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W1bY9UufJTw

The totally power is irrelevant if the op is just using "some" collective to arrest descent.

Originally Posted by desertstalker

If you were experiencing VRS then more power would INCREASE descent speed not reduce it. You cant power out of it. Also that video did not show any significant descent that could induce VRS. The video makes it look mechanical to me, as though the pilot was over-compensating on collective.

True and false. Yes the power being used in banditpowdercoat's video is what causes the model to get VRS, but he also has the power to get out of it which he does.

I've had this discussion with you before desertstalker. As I said back then, a CH53E has the power to get itself out VRS as stated by test pilot Nick Lappos. This is because of the excess power it has over most other types of full scale heli's. Our R/C heli's have so much power to burn that getting into VRS is simply a matter of not applying enough power. Hence why no one is ever taught VRS identification and recovery methods in R/C world, people just give it some more power and don't even realise that anything occurred.

[babyuh1]

I've had this problem with my Protos FB the whole time that I've owned it. It doesn't matter what blades either. I figure that it is just that sensitive! I smoothed it out alot by tweaking the pitch curve.

[banditpowdercoat]

So, flew both Blade and protos outside the house today. The blade doesnt exibit this tendancy, and I went inverted with the protos and it does it too. Hard to say if as much? I was high up and only 5-6 seconds inverted. I have a really tight area in front of house to fly and am not good enough to low inverted unless im on the sim.

BTW, havnt redid the BX setting yet

[banditpowdercoat]

OK I noticed my BX was 3.0.0 Just updated to 3.0.8 Noticed none of the settings changed like updating fro, v2 Cool. Went through setup again. found pitch +13.3 -12.4 Shouldnt be anything, but reset +- 12. We try tomorrow fingers crossed!! I can hover my B400 2900HS 8" off ground with BX V3.0.0 and rise it 1 or 2 or 5" at command. The Protos, it wont be stable till 1.5ft maybe, then try to rise, no, more collective, more,,,, till I add about 4* I think then it jumps in elev in a steady rise. I am way more confidant with the Blade down low, can flip 5' above the deck with it but the Protos, I feel 30' is min safe

[Mixmaster Pilot]

I don't understand what you mean in that last post?

Also are you familiar with "ground efffect"? That's what you had going on in that video.

A generally accepted rule of thumb is that ground effect starts being effective at one and a half rotor disks high (the length of the disk). So in essence that B400 can fly at a lower hover before experiencing ground effect.

To hold a hover in ground effect takes less pitch, the heli may rise but as ground effect is lost, it falls again. To escape ground effect takes more pitch.


Also you can smooth out your Protos by giving it less pitch, this could also be why you feel more comfortable with the B400.

[banditpowdercoat]

OK, Flew the BX 3.0.8 today, same results, but now I am compensating for it. What I think it is is that I;m so used to flying my Blade with a higher HS 2900, and it is so light that it doesnt take much pitch change to change heli height. The Protos, 2500HS needs a little more Pitch than I am used to to get itself moving, or stop itself. ie descending. Starting to get dark, But I am going to try add kinda a Expo in the pitch curve, with faster pitch change around center stick, See wht that does.

But MAN do I love the authorative sound the blades make beating the air into submission with the Protos.
Also, I can hear VRS I think too. Ocassionally when decending, and adding a little pitch the blade fart kind of changes tone. The Protos can power through this with more pitch of coarse, but it is a different blade fart.