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Mikado Logo 800 Xxtreme Mikado Logo 800 Xxtreme Helicopters Discussion |
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03-26-2012, 05:35 AM | #1 (permalink) |
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Total motor shutdown
Just got back from a my 44th problem free flight, correction crash , & the motor quit after a flip. Had all other functions except the motor would not run. Happened about 50' off the ground very hard auto landing , bent some stuff up. Did not turn off or unhook anything until I could get the blades off & the motor started right up now I'm really worried. What caused it to shut down? Wire insulation looks good , connections are good, solder joints are all good, no bad motor smells, checked the 3 caps on the ESC & visually they look fine.
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03-26-2012, 06:14 AM | #2 (permalink) |
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ESC temperature? 1 empty pack?
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03-26-2012, 06:56 AM | #3 (permalink) |
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I am curious - Did you find out what the problem was? I am sure others are monitoring this as well.
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03-26-2012, 07:26 AM | #4 (permalink) |
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did you check the motor according to the video I posted on Vstabi?
Did you ever check the blinking codes on the YGE at the time of the shutdown? |
03-26-2012, 08:31 AM | #5 (permalink) |
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At this point I don't remeber if the ESC was blinking. Yes checked the motor according to your post.
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03-26-2012, 08:38 AM | #6 (permalink) |
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You indicated it was a hard hit from 50' - what the damage minimal or extensive? I am trying to gather info on how durable these birds are after a crash, and what to expect.
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03-26-2012, 08:50 AM | #7 (permalink) |
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Broke the plastic legs on the landing gear , bent the blade holder arms, broke the plastic ball links , nicked the bottom of one blade when it hit the top of the screw for the tail boom brace & cracked the gel coat canopy with some chunks gone. $52.00 worth of parts not including the canopy.
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03-26-2012, 09:42 AM | #8 (permalink) |
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The esc's lights should be the key to discovering the motor problem. Out of curiosity, did the motor just stop solid, or did it do a slow spool down like a soft cutoff? Reason I ask, is this happened to me after I forgot to charge half my packs. It does a quick slow spooled down. Basically it falls quickly and barely helps with the auto. Fortunately I was in a good position for it to happen. When I checked my esc, my lights resulted in I think 6 flashes which meant under voltage. My V-Bar log showed no signs of an issue. Basically I'm running 2-4s and 2-3s packs and I forgot to charge the 4s packs. Just something to think about I guess.
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03-26-2012, 10:53 AM | #9 (permalink) |
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The motor stopped no soft cutoff. That what I was told by those that looked at the Vbar file.Here is a Quote from that text "Well, the log did not show anything strange just before the auto. The End of the auto is probably the "sensor out of range" message. (page 27, Time 8:10). The Gov sensor did not detect signals, which seems to confirm that the motor has stopped. The Gov was not stopped intentionally, so there seems to be a problem with the ESC or the Motor." I run 7S packs that showed the same voltage after the flight & charged up equally.
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03-26-2012, 11:10 AM | #10 (permalink) |
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Just got back from 1st flight since shut down. Very carefull did 1/2 dozens flips & it kept on running.
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03-26-2012, 11:26 AM | #11 (permalink) |
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Do you remember what your voltage was? The soft cutoff, I found is not really that soft, for me it felt like it completely quit, but I could still hear it running a little bit. In regards to the governor showing loss of signal, I believe you could still have the soft or hard cutoff which would give you the same reading. The V-bar governor only kicks in at 50% throttle, so if there is a cutoff of any kind, it should drop you below the 50% cutoff, in turn shutting off the governor. However I am not exactly sure if the govern continues to govern during the bailout mode, in which case it could still work below 50%. If I had to guess, I would suspect some sort of drop or change in voltage, and possible an over-amperage or heat causing the esc to shut down. How's the gearing mesh? Are your temps all fairly normal after flying? Also, with your charger do you have the ability to check the io of the batteries? Just thinking out loud, and trying to help diagnose the problem. I can't quite remember where the cutoff is set on the esc, but when I checked my packs, the two I forgot to charge were at 2.9v. Fortunately they appear to still be working just fine, and have not suffered any damage. Glad she's back in the air though!
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03-26-2012, 11:38 AM | #12 (permalink) |
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Just read your thread on V-stabi, and watched Mel's video. Looks like you found the problem. Even if you get a 0 reading on the bench, when it spools up, it can touch causing the short, which in turn probably caused the esc to cut the power.
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03-26-2012, 11:51 AM | #13 (permalink) |
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I'm not sure that was the problem thats why I posted it here. I couldn't find a puncture in the insulation or get an OHM reading from case to yellow wire. I did move the wire away from the hole & put an extra washer on each bolt so they did not sitck out of the case. I also moved the yellow winding away from the case , but there was no burn or arc spots on the case.
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03-26-2012, 12:02 PM | #14 (permalink) |
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A short in the motor would certainly be able to trip the overcurrent protection in the YGE, but since you did not see the blinking code certainty is impobble, but its a REALLY good bet, almost certain
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03-26-2012, 12:04 PM | #15 (permalink) |
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The ohm reading will only occur while the motor is shorted, ie. the screw touching a winding. When you checked it was it still mounted on the motor mount? If it touches the insulation but does not cut through, you won't get the short. I would mount the motor exactly as you had it, and if possible while slowly turning the motor, try to see if you can see any of the mount screws touch any of the bare wire. If not, then I would suspect batteries next. Did you fly it again after the incident, but before you pulled the motor?
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03-26-2012, 12:17 PM | #16 (permalink) |
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The only thing I did right after this happened , removed the blades & it ran fine. I used a magnifying glass , looked the yellow insulation over & there are no holes. Batteries are charging right up & balancing out at the same rate.
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03-26-2012, 12:21 PM | #17 (permalink) |
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Ok, after reading your original post again, you said you didn't unplug anything, pulled the blades, and powered it up again without any issue correct? If so, my money is on the batteries. It may be worth doing a little homework into how the YGE deals with cutoffs. I just read the pdf manual on it, and it doesn't go into too much detail, other than an undervoltage, or overheat will cause the motor to just stop. I believe from reading the manual, the under-voltage is set to 3.0v. The temp cuttoff isn't noted, but it does briefly describe about middle throttle usage causing higher temps. So far with mine, unlike my Jive, I do notice the YGE gets a bit warmer when I run lower throttle percentages, as I normally fly with mild headspeeds and occasional high headspeeds. So, my thoughts and just a guess, is that you either got the esc to do a thermal shut down or your batteries had at least 1 cell drop below 3.0v even momentarily. The manual isn't too clear, but it does make it sound like this type of cutoff doesn't store for very long, so while you removed the blades and straightened things out, either the temps lowered, or the voltage settled, allowing you to start it back up. If you had a short in your motor, you would probably have strange behaviour on the bench, heat, smell, and then a burned up esc.......Again, these are just my thoughts.
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03-26-2012, 05:03 PM | #18 (permalink) | |
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Quote:
Wow! That's almost identical to my crash parts count, right down to the nick on the bottom of one blade and I'm surprised the horizontal tail fin didn't brake in the process. I only bent one blade grip arm though. My crash wasn't a total motor shutdown but I believe related to the governor sensor input. Check your Vbar log file for governor signal errors. I'm no closer to a conclusive answer to why and very reluctant to fly again until 100% sure of the cause. From comments about motor and ESC I am even keener on a Kontronik Kosmik and Pyro 800. Good luck. Jayson
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03-26-2012, 06:01 PM | #19 (permalink) |
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I run Pyro motors & Kontronick ESC's on my TDRs & have never had anything like this. To be fair I don't run governors on them & I feel at the bottom of this it's governor related. I've got two flights on it since the event with no problems. I'm flying it on pins & needles though. There were no governor related errors in my Vlog.
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05-13-2012, 02:17 PM | #20 (permalink) |
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Hello,
I am having the same problem, my motor shutdown without any reason. Here are two videos where you can listen motor completely shutdown and then spooling up. The second video it shutdown, then spool up and then shut down again. I do not look at ESC leds, but this weekend I will do some test to try to reach from where the problem is. My idea is to fly all the batteries at 5cm or 10cm from the ground, first to discard batteries failure and second check ESC temperature and leds. [ame]http://youtu.be/bNc6GPS8eRk[/ame] [ame]http://youtu.be/QOMJ334Y0Vc[/ame] |
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