eLogger to PC protocol?

[halley]

(Sorry, didn't see any dedicated flight-electronics topic areas.)

I've been interested in the EagleTree eLogger line of products, but I refuse to use Windows. I don't care about the pretty graphing and dashboard stuff, I just want to download the data that is collected by the device.

I can write software and interface with microelectronics a fair amount, so I thought I might be able to work out a non-Windows (e.g., MacOSX, Linux, Android, iPhone, etc.) data download capability. In fact, I might even be interested in making alternative sensors that can be logged along with their more mainstream ones.

So I wrote a quick question to their support line. Unfortunately, they gave no information and basically said I was on my own if I wasn't running Windows.

Before I begin the process of reverse-engineering the data download protocols, has anyone else here done any work with these products?

[TheBum]

I suspect the Eagle Tree interface appears to Windows as a COM port. There is software available for Windows that allows monitoring of COM port I/O. I don't remember what it's called, but I've used it to reverse engineer other protocols.

[halley]

Yes, that's my expectation as well.

However, it's much more fun to add support to an open project than a proprietary project. I will also be taking a close look at DragonOSD and other OSD kits. Plus I wouldn't need to borrow someone else's Windows machine to do the study.

[cudaboy_71]

man, if you reverse engineer the eagletree logger to write an OSX/iphone app i'll SEND you a windows box.

if only you could add phoenix, realflight, castlelink and the vbar software to your todo list i wouldnt need to run windows at all.

[WillJames]

There is about to be an Eagle Tree support forum here on HF that is factory supported. Maybe they can help. Check it out Eagle Tree Systems in the electronics forums.

[Ecklund1]

Originally Posted by WillJames

There is about to be an Eagle Tree support forum here on HF that is factory supported. Maybe they can help. Check it out Eagle Tree Systems in the electronics forums.

Like this one! Thanks Will!

[Ecklund1]

Originally Posted by cudaboy_71

man, if you reverse engineer the eagletree logger to write an OSX/iphone app i'll SEND you a windows box.

if only you could add phoenix, realflight, castlelink and the vbar software to your todo list i wouldnt need to run windows at all.

Eagle Tree frowns on people reverse engineering their products. I'll inquire about the communications.

[TheBum]

Originally Posted by Ecklund1

Eagle Tree frowns on people reverse engineering their products. I'll inquire about the communications.

We're not talking about reverse engineering the unit itself, just analyzing the protocol so we can have a non-Windows alternative to the Eagle Tree software. It's perfectly legal under the DMCA unless they encrypt the protocol somehow. The only answer I got when I inquired about the possibility of a Mac version was that I could run Windows in a VM. I had to point out that Windows VMs are not free, requiring the purchase of not only the virtualization software but also of a copy of Windows.

[Ecklund1]

Maybe I misinterpreted it.

[cudaboy_71]

Originally Posted by Ecklund1

Eagle Tree frowns on people reverse engineering their products. I'll inquire about the communications.

ya..they may frown upon it. but, legally that's about all they can do...be upset (encryption of output notwithstanding).

if there was a revenue stream tied to the software side of the device, they might have a case. but, they're just being lazy or short sighted not providing the tools to intercept the output stream for willing developers...all IMHO of course.

[TotalNewbie]

So...

If EagleTree and others don't want us to futz with their products, why not develop our own. Call it the HeliFreak Open Logger Protocol. Begin work on the protocol here in the HF forums. Hopefully, the manufacturers will notice and provide input on what they'd like to see in the protocol. Hopefully, the manufactures will come on board and agree to support the protocol. Maybe, to help things along, we should create some open hardware that everyone, including the manufacturers can produce and modify however they'd like. Develop some open source software to meet the needs of those of us who'd like to use something other than Windows or would like to use some device other than a PC or notebook, such as an cell phone or PDA. Allow the manufacturers to include the software with their products.

I'm willing to hash out a protocol with input from everyone here and I can contribute software written with GTK or QT.
--
TotalNewbie

[MrWindupBird]

I myself would really like to see more options for downloading and viewing the sessions - preferably a Mac version - and one that does not require an Intel Mac as my laptop is a Powerbook G4.

Oh, and for the open source version, I vote to go with Qt. I played around with the latest release (4.5), and its pretty slick - especially in the area of hardware acceleration of graphics.

[billpa]

Howdy!

Thanks for the great feedback about our need for an open source solution.

First, a little info about how things work now with our equipment. The data that comes across the USB from the eLogger is:

a) highly compressed. We use a proprietary lossless compression scheme, which shares some compression algorithms with MPEG. This results in a LOT of data being saved in a small space.

b) raw - the logged data is converted to the various final forms (speed, temp, rpm, etc.) by our windows application. There is lots of proprietary code required to do this.

So, rewriting our code is not an efficient solution. For Windows users who want to develop their own app, we are working on a DLL that your app can easily host. But that does not address non-Windows platforms fully.

For Mac, right now the best solution is either VMWare or Parallels, as you probably know (warts and all).

But, we have BIG plans around making it easy to access the Eagle Tree data on multiple platforms, in a native form. The way it will work is quite elegant, but I can't reveal it until I make certain it works.

I thought we would have this shipped already, but the OSD Pro project came up, which kept us unexpectedly busy for the last 4 months. This has been a really fun project to work on, by the way.

So, bottom line, I hope people will be patient with us a little longer. I totally understand the need/desire for open source access to our data on all platforms, and we are going to provide this. I'm not blowing smoke here!

[halley]

Lots of good points about reverse engineering above (especially that it's 100% completely legal to do a cleanroom study of the implementation). Also under USA DMCA, there is a carve-out for interoperability, which would apply here. Patents cover specific mechanisms, copyrights cover specific implementations of algorithms (where applicable at all), and neither apply to specific data formats. I personally don't care much about the GUI aspects, Gtk or Qt or whatever, but at bare minimum, the protocol really must be fully documented (not just a proprietary precompiled library to parse it) before I'm happy.

That said, I totally appreciate the Eagle Tree rep coming here and saying that they have some plans in the works to support the community. Even if they do end up just providing a proprietary precompiled library to parse the protocol, it's a start. I look forward to watching the product evolve once it's usable on Unix and embedded platforms. Really, thanks for the comment, billpa!

Of course, if it doesn't open up, they could be made irrelevant... helicopter hobbyists seem to be a pretty technically savvy bunch, and new products and projects could leave them in the dust if we put down our TXs and pull up our keyboards for a bit.

[tuupola]

billpa: For me the only reason I have NOT bought Eagle Tree logger is that I cannot tinker with the data freely and I am forced to use Windows. I am a strong believer that choosing anything proprietary will just hinder sales.

For example, just imagine how much more sales you would made if all the robot builders started using Eagle Tree logger because someone wrote a Ruby library for accessing data.

[nexgen]

I just think it'd be cool to hook up my Palm LifeDrive to it and see the stats I want.

[tuupola]

I want to hook my iPhone

[merlin703]

+2

Originally Posted by tuupola

I want to hook my iPhone

[tuupola]

Hyperion E-Meter II + RDU logs data into FAT-16 or FAT-32 formatted SD card. Datafile is simple CSV file which looks something like this:

Volts,Amps ,RPM  ,MaOut,MaIn ,Alti ,hh:mm:ss,TempA,Temp1,Temp2,Temp3,Throt,Ef,Thrus,Exp
00.00,000.0,00000,00000,00000,00000,19:43:27,030.5,000.0,000.0,000.0,00000,00,00000,000
00.00,000.0,00000,00000,00000,00001,19:43:27,030.5,000.0,000.0,000.0,00000,00,00000,000
00.00,000.0,00000,00000,00000,00000,19:43:28,030.5,000.0,000.0,000.0,00000,00,00000,000
00.00,000.0,00000,00000,00000,00000,19:43:28,030.5,000.0,000.0,000.0,00000,00,00000,000

Simple to import to almost any program or to manipulate by yourself. There is also another datafile with peaks logged:

V-min,V-max,A-max,R-max,Mah-I,Mah-O,H-max,W-Max,T1Max,T2Max,T3Max
00.00,00.03,000.0,00090,00000,00000,00001,00000,000.0,000.0,000.0

[Alfred]

I hope it will happen as it has been promised for a while now.
Personally I don't care that much if it is propriety or not.
Just look at the Nvidia drivers for Linux. There is the open source "nv" driver and the propriety driver.
The majority use the propriety driver with great effect.
I am just sick of having to boot into Windows for the few applets we have in our hobby.
As more and more hobby hardware is becoming programmable, as more the need for interoperate Software.
I would love to have a Netbook, running minimum Linux Gui to do all our programming, instead of lugging my full size Laptop to the field.