Horrible crash APS today/Testing for first time

[mmarmouz]

HI,

after rebuilding the heli, i have set everything correctly as Tim from Align usa, told me to and manual. But still i don't get a solid swash in APS mode, it's does move a little and tilt a little on the side. Now i had test it today, did the GPS settings and vibration test (passed first attemp), then i landed, switched to APS and start a Semi-autonomous takeoff, it has raised without touching the cyclic stick, just raising the throtlle, wend up to about 10 feets, heli was going a little left, but was stable, and after around 10 seconds of hoovering, it went down to the ground fast !

Damages : land skid, 3g blades tail stabilization carbon fiber .. as i can see for now.

any idea what's going on ?

Everything is set correctly .. if you have any idea, please let me know.

I am thinking that the APS GYRO is defective, because it does not stay level when switching to APS on the ground during preflight with the throttle in middle stick.

thanks

[nightflyr]

I am by no means any expert on the ALIGN platform...
But what your describing sounds to be some type of vibration issue affecting the system.. at least to where it concerns the drifting.

[mmarmouz]

What i can say, is that doing the test in ground or with no blades, aps is stil tilt even the heli is not moving at all! The only time the swash is solid, is when no gps signal or ps wire disconnected

[lucasmmeira]

Hello, I bought an APS too two months ago, but I'm not feeling confortable to use it. I have an Aurora 9 and everything is working fine in the ground (All the lights, except for the up/down swasplate compensation, that didn't work) but I didn't get match the numbers 35/50/51-100 in the gyro setup. I think that Aurora 9 has different numbers from Spektrum/JR/Futaba. I have the same swasplate behavior in my t-rex when I swicth to APS/GPS in the ground. It has a big tilt. I think that is normal, because if you see Align's movies, you'll see that they have the same issue. I will wait for a new updating to debut my APS

[mmarmouz]

Originally Posted by lucasmmeira

Hello, I bought an APS too two months ago, but I'm not feeling confortable to use it. I have an Aurora 9 and everything is working fine in the ground (All the lights, except for the up/down swasplate compensation, that didn't work) but I didn't get match the numbers 35/50/51-100 in the gyro setup. I think that Aurora 9 has different numbers from Spektrum/JR/Futaba. I have the same swasplate behavior in my t-rex when I swicth to APS/GPS in the ground. It has a big tilt. I think that is normal, because if you see Align's movies, you'll see that they have the same issue. I will wait for a new updating to debut my APS

that's wha i saw too in align video, but why this is happening

when it tilt it will go negative pitch for sure, and cause my crashs ! it should stay leveled, don't have explanation for now, but something is going on for sure.

Did take off ok with APS, then hoovering for 5-10 seconds, then BOOM ! went down to kiss the ground !

[lucasmmeira]

I think that we have to be patients and wait a new updating. I hope that in the next version, they will fix it. For now, I will not use my APS. They don't have a good support for their products and I do not recommend anyone to buy it. Stay away from this product!

[lucasmmeira]

Hi mmarmouz, I had the same issue (swasplate tilt in the ground after turn on APS). I think that is normal, as the manual says. But if you reduce your attitude/level gain all the away to the left or almost, I think that you will have a level swasplate after turn on APS. After that, make all the preflight checks to see if everything is ok.

[mmarmouz]

Originally Posted by lucasmmeira

Hi mmarmouz, I had the same issue (swasplate tilt in the ground after turn on APS). I think that is normal, as the manual says. But if you reduce your attitude/level gain all the away to the left or almost, I think that you will have a level swasplate after turn on APS. After that, make all the preflight checks to see if everything is ok.

Hi lucasmmeira,

Thanks, i will try that, does your's all the way low, the 3 gains ?
Did you flight with succes in aps or gps ?

[lucasmmeira]

The most important for me was the attidute gain. I still dind't fly, I will wait a new version (1.2?).

[Stumblebee]

Too bad to hear about the problems folks are having with the Align APS. It is a VERY pricey add-on. It almost sounds like "APS" stands for Automatic Parts Sales. To give the devil his due, some things have to be taken into consideration with any product like this. First and foremost, you have to start with a perfectly built and set up heli. There probably are not a lot of those around. Second, you have to have a perfectly set up Tx. No promises on that one either. Third, you have to be able to follow instructions of questionable quality to install and set up the Align APS perfectly in both the heli and the Tx. Having all three of those parameters come together perfectly is asking a lot. This is not an "Align Bash". Other manufacturers have had their share of successes and failures as well. So far, it looks like this quest for the "Holy Grail" of an affordable R/C heli auto-pilot system is a ways off. Fortunately, technology gallops ahead relentlessly. Our wallets go galloping off right behind it.

[mmarmouz]

Originally Posted by lucasmmeira

Hi mmarmouz, I had the same issue (swasplate tilt in the ground after turn on APS). I think that is normal, as the manual says. But if you reduce your attitude/level gain all the away to the left or almost, I think that you will have a level swasplate after turn on APS. After that, make all the preflight checks to see if everything is ok.

Hi, i turned all gains to 9am, almost lowest i think its something around 20-30%, and now the swashplate is really stable in aps, it tilt but just a small amount after some time. What i did is removed the blades, i was at default gain,50%, then throttle around 50-60% in ground, switched to aps, and swashplate tilt very fast and hard to the right!!!

Now did the same test with gains to 9am, and swashplate is leveled and stay like that.

One thing tho that i found anormal now, is gps mode, it used to tild hard after i switch to gps, and since i upgraded to 3gx 3.0, gps get a solid swashplate ! And it stay like that!! I dont have to worry about?

I am more confident now test aps again, should i try a takeoff in aps, or fly then switch to aps in the sky?

Thanks for all the help ! if it work ok with all 3 gains at 9am, can i leave them like that all the time ?

[jhamlinjr]

I feel for you guys. Got one of the first APS units and sold it after it pounded my AV ship.... twice into the ground. No support or anything from Align. Begged Mr. Jeff Fastbinder for help. No response and the people I was able to contact didn't have a clue about the system. It's a joke and they are just letting this stuff happen. Good luck and stock up on you're usual crash parts. Better yet, put it on a 450 until you feel comfortable.

[mmarmouz]

Originally Posted by jhamlinjr

I feel for you guys. Got one of the first APS units and sold it after it pounded my AV ship.... twice into the ground. No support or anything from Align. Begged Mr. Jeff Fastbinder for help. No response and the people I was able to contact didn't have a clue about the system. It's a joke and they are just letting this stuff happen. Good luck and stock up on you're usual crash parts. Better yet, put it on a 450 until you feel comfortable.

I only have a 250 and 500 dfc, i dont think there is a tail mount for the gps in the 250

[LeoInno]

Hi mmarmouz,
Your problem seems like vibration cause APS working wrong.
Did you idle up to hover about 30 sec when you passed the vibration test?
Maybe it works fine if you didn't idle up.
APS is very sensitive to vibration, it has to make sure APS pass the vibration test in the same situation when you switch 3GX to APS mode.

And have you do the 3GX throttle range calibration?
if not, it could casue heli crash just like your problem.

I want to help you solve this problem.
Let me know if you check those two things, thanks.

Leo

[LeoInno]

Hi mmarmouz,
Your problem seems like vibration cause APS working wrong.
Did you idle up to hover about 30 sec when you passed the vibration test?
Maybe it works fine if you didn't idle up.
APS is very sensitive to vibration, it has to make sure APS pass the vibration test in the same situation when you switch 3GX to APS mode.

And have you do the 3GX throttle range calibration?
if not, it could casue heli crash just like your problem.

I want to help you solve this problem.
Let me know if you check those two things, thanks.

Leo

[mmarmouz]

Originally Posted by LeoInno

Hi mmarmouz,
Your problem seems like vibration cause APS working wrong.
Did you idle up to hover about 30 sec when you passed the vibration test?
Maybe it works fine if you didn't idle up.
APS is very sensitive to vibration, it has to make sure APS pass the vibration test in the same situation when you switch 3GX to APS mode.

And have you do the 3GX throttle range calibration?
if not, it could casue heli crash just like your problem.

I want to help you solve this problem.
Let me know if you check those two things, thanks.

Leo

Hi Leo!

Thanks for the reply, i did not swith to idle up on the second crash, i did an auto take off in normal mode only and it crashed after 10sec in the air with aps, did switch before take off, gps led was green. I did the vibration test hoovering for 30 sec in normal mode.

Like i said when i am in the ground, hoovering position and switch to aps, swahplate tilt hard

After lowering all 3 gains to 9am, now switching to aps leave the swash leveled !

Is it ok to try it with gains so low ?

And yes i did throttle calibration, set button pressed, put power, wait until all led are on, then from lower position throttle go all the way up, then it reboot itself, diconnect power, and reconnect. Also did vib an gps setup

[LeoInno]

Hi mmarmouz,
It is fine to test with low gain.
My suggestion is do vibration test in idle mode, I guess it will not pass.
If it passes, you should fly higher enough when you switch to APS mode so that you can have enough time to response if APS works wrong again.
If it doesn't pass, you can add metal plate to APS to enhance anti-vibration ability.
It should be looking like this
from top to bottom
APS
-------------------------------
metal plate
-------------------------------
vibration damping foam

And one more question,
when you say you were in the ground, hoovering position and switch to aps, swashplate tilt hard, did you test this indoor?
It may not happen outside.

Hope those information can help you.

Leo

[mmarmouz]

Originally Posted by LeoInno

Hi mmarmouz,
It is fine to test with low gain.
My suggestion is do vibration test in idle mode, I guess it will not pass.
If it passes, you should fly higher enough when you switch to APS mode so that you can have enough time to response if APS works wrong again.
If it doesn't pass, you can add metal plate to APS to enhance anti-vibration ability.
It should be looking like this
from top to bottom
APS
-------------------------------
metal plate
-------------------------------
vibration damping foam

And one more question,
when you say you were in the ground, hoovering position and switch to aps, swashplate tilt hard, did you test this indoor?
It may not happen outside.

Hope those information can help you.

Leo

Leo,

Yes i test it indoor. Without blades or in throttle hold.
Does the virbration dampening foram have to be only in the bottom part or also between the aps and metal plate like the nitro heli ??

[Wesley888]

Originally Posted by mmarmouz

Does the virbration dampening foram have to be only in the bottom part or also between the aps and metal plate like the nitro heli ??

The vibration dampening foam only at the bottom part. The metal is for increasing the weight of the APS unit. A heavier object works better on the dampening foam than a lighter one.

[mmarmouz]

Originally Posted by Wesley888

The vibration dampening foam only at the bottom part. The metal is for increasing the weight of the APS unit. A heavier object works better on the dampening foam than a lighter one.

So between heli and metal playe put the dampening foam, and between the plate and aps should i put the align 3gx double tape ??