Crash, No Expo

[Freeskiken]

It was a long time ago I set up this Heli. I increase the flip and roll rate (80) in the VBar settings, I didn't realize that I have no expo set in the TX. I flipped it, then upright, then flipped it again as it was flying forward, tried to recover but crashed.

Pretty tough little Heli. Looks like the main shaft, blades, canopy, spindle, one of the links, and belt. (Mini Protos)

I guess I need to add expo. I had it setup so docile I wanted to make it fly better. I also increased yaw rate because I had it so slow.

[Freeskiken]

Well I finally received the parts and had time to put it back together. Now I am going to go out and test it today. I added -30 for Elev, -30 for Aileron and -30 for Rud in the TX and set the Agility settings in the VBar back to 70. Went through the VBar setup last night and everything look OK.

Replaced, Canopy, main shaft, spindle, blade grips and bearings, Jesus bolt, main blades, tail blades, FBL link, belt. I think that was it ?

When I powered up the VBar for the first time it was doing funny things, kind of pulsating, not moving correctly, the tail not moving at all ? I unplugged it and plugged it back in and it seems OK ? Hopefully all is good.

[Freeskiken]

Well that didn't go well. Lifted It up it went back and forth. Tried to gain control hit throttle hold and it crashed. Bent boom, boom brace broken, one blade damaged on the end. The VBar is loose !! from the crash before. That's why I didn't have any control.

[Chris Nifty]

Hang on, the -30 values you put in your tx was that for expo? Pretty sure if you want expo you want + values to make it more docile around center stick. I don't use it myself.

[dr dremel]

I see Futaba gear in your profile page. So for Futaba tx neg expo would be correct to tame the heli down a bit.

[CrashAddict]

Futaba is -ngve, JR is positive. -30 is not a lot of expo.. that's the point you just start to feel it. I went through this all once already. VBAR expo should be off. In the TX, set the dual rates to about 60%, head speed to 2600RPM MAX. Set the Expos to -60. It is then sort of not a spaztic helicopter. Even with all that it is still harder to fly than a Trex 450 out of the box.

[Freeskiken]

Originally Posted by CrashAddict

Futaba is -ngve, JR is positive. -30 is not a lot of expo.. that's the point you just start to feel it. I went through this all once already. VBAR expo should be off. In the TX, set the dual rates to about 60%, head speed to 2600RPM MAX. Set the Expos to -60. It is then sort of not a spaztic helicopter. Even with all that it is still harder to fly than a Trex 450 out of the box.

I need to check the head speed. It is a stretch Mini Protos on 6s. I didn't think I would need to run -60 ? Negative numbers for Futaba is correct. I have a Futaba 10 CHG and a 14 SG. The blades are done. Boom bent and one boom brace broken. I have zero expo before and agility in the VBar set to 70. Its when I turned up the agility to 80 I had a problem. So I set it back to 70 and put in -30.

[spykez]

Originally Posted by Freeskiken

Well that didn't go well. Lifted It up it went back and forth. Tried to gain control hit throttle hold and it crashed. Bent boom, boom brace broken, one blade damaged on the end. The VBar is loose !! from the crash before. That's why I didn't have any control.

Oh SUGAR!

I have often debated whether to strap mine down. I just use 3M 4011 however, one layer. So far no worries.

[anthony1]

I run -30 on my futaba but I feel it could use a little more, i'm running the 3s version and its a really nice heli to fly, it really only bogs when I get my tic toc coordination wrong but thats my fault, it seems to crash well too the only problem I've had with it so far is the bearing in the y motor bracket which gave me a pronounced elevator bobble , took me a week to find that one out but once that bearing was changed its been great again

[CrashAddict]

I only said -60 because that, you will know it is there and then back it off till you feel its getting too crazy. I turned off Paddle Sim and Expo in the Vbar because these seem to confuse the issue somewhat. Paddle sim adds sensitivity around the center and the expo, at the default 20 seems to do about nothing.

[Freeskiken]

Originally Posted by CrashAddict

I only said -60 because that, you will know it is there and then back it off till you feel its getting too crazy. I turned off Paddle Sim and Expo in the Vbar because these seem to confuse the issue somewhat. Paddle sim adds sensitivity around the center and the expo, at the default 20 seems to do about nothing.

Thanks I will try it after I get it back together.

[brewer00psd]

FYI
Adding 10 points to a vbar when you are 70 is huge. I feel a big difference adding 1 or 2 points. Especially on a 450. Be careful making huge swings. If you flew it at 70 and liked it but want a little more liveliness, continue to add 1 point till you get it where you want. It seems you wanted more from your heli, added 10 points to agility, it responded too quickly for your liking and now you are trying to adjust it out by deadening your sticks in the transmitter. Something to think about is that now your sticks will be dead around center but exponentially more sensitive in little stick travel you have left. I use expo on my planes, but use none in the transmitter for helis. I know it is personal preference. I think you might like it more down the road using the settings in the vbar vs in the radio. Step up agility 1 or 2 points at a time fly it for a while and work up to knowing the crisp feeling you had at 80 and keep the stick resolution. When i tried expo i was constantly chasing the heli.Just a thought. Good kuck.
Matt


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[Freeskiken]

Thanks Matt. I put the agility back to my original setting of 70. I added expo and will try it. Like you said 10 points is a huge change. I will set it one point at a time in the future and reduce the expo.

[spykez]

I dunno. If you like expo, use it imho. I use 30-40% I am not afraid to say, with short sticks, thumbs. I keep my expo on the radio side.

[Freeskiken]

I think some expo is a good thing. I use it in my other Helis just for some reason I didn't program it into this setup. With the VBar agility at 70 it was OK. I wanted to increase agility slightly. I should have tried a point or two not ten. I will play around with the expo once I have it flying again. I will put the 3m tape on the gyro. I was using the VBar tape. I moved it around a bit after the crash to see if it was stuck down but I guess I should have pulled harder. In hind sight it did some strange movements on the table when I was going over the settings after I rebuilt it. I unplugged it and restarted it and it seemed OK. I should have pulled on the VBar harder to see if it was OK. Now I know after a crash make SURE the gyro is stuck down.

[CrashAddict]

The Other Slider, Precice vs Vivid.. If you have a lot of Expo, say 45, and set it to vivid, the faster reaction and overshoot can cancel it out and give you a different feel. I dunno, so many settings, so few banks.

[spykez]

Originally Posted by CrashAddict

The Other Slider, Precice vs Vivid.. If you have a lot of Expo, say 45, and set it to vivid, the faster reaction and overshoot can cancel it out and give you a different feel. I dunno, so many settings, so few banks.

I am still trying to figure out what I like best myself. One thing I think I've noticed myself any ways. On a relatively windless day I prefer the stock unstretched or maybe it's just the sab 325's. Windy days, Protos 430's; more mass I guess.

[brewer00psd]

Originally Posted by spykez

I dunno. If you like expo, use it imho. I use 30-40% I am not afraid to say, with short sticks, thumbs. I keep my expo on the radio side.

That make sense to me. I used to fly thumbs, but when I started flying helis I switched to pinch. I also lengthened my sticks.
But even so, I can't get used to the dead feel around center stick. Everyone has a "feel" they like.

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[brewer00psd]

Originally Posted by CrashAddict

The Other Slider, Precice vs Vivid.. If you have a lot of Expo, say 45, and set it to vivid, the faster reaction and overshoot can cancel it out and give you a different feel. I dunno, so many settings, so few banks.

LOL!

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[Freeskiken]

Well got the parts, rebuilt the Heli, then realized the longs balls and it looks like the blade grips are bent, now I have to wait for parts again.

I thought the blade grips would break not bend ?