Swift vs TRex550 or Gaui X5 for scale?

[npomeroy]

I'm thinking about a 550 size scale Century fuse (probably Jetranger) and looking at pros and cons of various mechanics. (I'd want to fly it pod and boom first). I would prefer direct-to-swash servos rather than the Swifts bellcranks, and also TT tail to avoid having to adjust the belt (or can it be done from the tail end, in fuse?).
I know this forum will be full of Century loyal owners but want to spread my queries.
Also the Swift being minimum kit allows appropriate motor choice to be made. It would be FBL.

[Furious Predator]

If a fuse is going to be put on, then one plus about the swift is it uses full size servos. If im not mistaken the Align machine uses mini servos.

This would allow a more beefy servo to help haul around the extra weight.

Century has also recently released a special mounting kit to allow easy installation of the swift mechanics into a fuse. Century fuselages are made for century mechanics, so they will fit like a glove. I personally do not know how well the Align machine will fit, may not be a problem at all.

I would honestly not be too concerned about belt tension unless you plan to fly in the winter, as the boom will shrink more then the belt. Once the belt has been loaded up and stretched for a few flights then it will be fine. I have not had to adjust the tension on mine for a very long time.

[npomeroy]

Thanks for that Shawn. Actually the TRex550 does use full sized servos, but I am leaning towards the Swift as I can match the power system from the beginning instead of buying components I don't use.

I take it the general robustness and quality of Century mechanics is considered to be up with other major brands (I realise not everyone thinks the "major" brands are good quality!). People say scale flying is so much more gentle than 3D that lower specs are OK but I like the added assurance with top components - Scale ships should not crash!

I have a similar question posed in the "scale" forum.

[Furious Predator]

It must have been maybe the trex500 i was thinking of then...if there was one. I have not been paying much attention to align the last few years...its hard to keep up with them. They bring out a new model more often then my ex changed her underwear.

I have not had a serious crash with my Swift 550, the worst was landing on the head. So I cannot comment on how it would hold up to a more serious crash. But in the air it has handled everything I could throw at it. I often push my heli's as hard as I can just to see that they can handle it, then I have the confidence to push them that hard when the time calls for it (bailing out/recovering from dumb thumb)

I do recommend a couple inexpensive upgrades how ever.

1) replace the plastic motor mount with the metal one. Not because the plastic one is too weak, but the metal one acts as a heat sink to the motor.

2) upgrade to the heavy duty main gears. These gears are actually from the 620, and are slightly larger. This speeds up the tail, and reduces the stress on the main gear. For me, during tick tocks with the stock gears, it would always rip off a tooth. Not anymore. Also, this will likely be a benefit for your scale application.

3) upgrade the tail box from plastic to metal. Again, not because the plastic one is no good, but the metal one is designed to make adjusting belt tension much easier...its just doing yourself a favor for later on.

None of these upgrades are very expensive, or necessary, but they are nice to have and serve a purpose.

[npomeroy]

Originally Posted by Furious Predator

.... 2) upgrade to the heavy duty main gears. These gears are actually from the 620, and are slightly larger. This speeds up the tail, and reduces the stress on the main gear. For me, during tick tocks with the stock gears, it would always rip off a tooth. Not anymore. Also, this will likely be a benefit for your scale application.

...

Thanks for the information.
I'm not sure I understand how the tail would be sped up by a larger diameter main gear.

[Furious Predator]

the tail pinion is driving off the main gears, increase diameter of the main gear and therefore increase rpm of the tail. This gave me noticeably better tail performance, it would no longer blow out the tail in backwards flight.

The motor has to achieve a higher rpm to get the same main blade rpm, but this difference was not noticeable to me.

[Elgyn]

Originally Posted by Furious Predator

It must have been maybe the trex500 i was thinking of then...if there was one. I have not been paying much attention to align the last few years...its hard to keep up with them. They bring out a new model more often then my ex changed her underwear.

I had an ex like that... ...nasty

Anywho I know my LHS doesn't like dealing with Align. They're not very good at supporting an older model.

[karl k]

Originally Posted by Elgyn

I had an ex like that... ...nasty

Anywho I know my LHS doesn't like dealing with Align. They're not very good at supporting an older model.

So true. My LHS has to deal with that, too. Why are so many different main shafts needed for a 600?

I like being able to keep parts in stock at home so I can fix things right away.
The spindle for the E640 and Swift are the same. The tail assembly for pretty much all their helis will swap across easily, etc... They also keep the same models for a long time and parts are available long after they're gone.

[Furious Predator]

yeah, that is a huge plus for century. There is a massive parts compatibility across multiple models. You can take any century rotor head from any model and put it onto any other model...if you wanted, you can put the predator 90 head on the hawk 30 or swift 550. The E640 head onto the predator, or the Radikal 30, you name it.

The N640 main gear that drives the tail is actually the main gear from the 550. The tails share common parts. My 50, and 90 had the same output shaft, slider, hub and grips. ALL of them can use the same swash plate, even canopies are cross compatible. You can fit the same canopy on the Hawk 30, Raven 50, NX50, Radikal G20, and G30!

And you can bet that even if a century model is discontinued you can still get the parts you need for a time to come....which is great. I cannot afford to keep buying the latest model just so I can still get parts.

[npomeroy]

This is the Century forum and I appreciate the knowledge of those here. I had barely heard of the brand (as pod+boom helis) before looking for a scale machine. The main reason I am on the verge of ordering a bare-bones TRex550 (on which I can install a suitable motor etc) is that especially with the cross compatibility with the T600 I can get most of common crash and mod parts with a 5 minute drive down the road. I don't stock pile parts (no need). Sure Align keep changing details of the models but most places keep parts that go a few versions back.

[ngin]

First relative to scale helicopters you will find that needing parts due to crashes, is very rare compared to their pod and boom 3D or sports aerobatic bretheren, simply because they are flown in a much more conservative manner and, due to the large fuselages, they are much easier to keep oriented.

Ditto for parts requirements relative to parts wear. This again is very rare because they are flown at much lower head speeds so parts wear take forever.

Consequently, making a mechanics decision relative to keeping a parts supply or local available is not all that relevant.

How well the heads fly at lower head speeds and how easy it is to addapt the mechanics to scale fuselages becomes primary considerations in scale. You will find a shaft driven tail rotor system much easier to addapt to a large variety of scale fuselages then are any belt drive mechanics.

This is why I like to suggest using Hawk Pro or NX50 mechanics that are converted to electric power with the Century electric conversion kit that they have for them.

Here is a few videos of just such a helis....you will find a number of others on youtube also.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nE0doOv4w-s[/ame]

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wkzRPRY4qJA[/ame]

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cGDPaI0s5b0[/ame]

[npomeroy]

Originally Posted by ngin

First relative to scale helicopters you will find that needing parts due to crashes, is very rare compared to their pod and boom 3D or sports aerobatic bretheren, simply because they are flown in a much more conservative manner and, due to the large fuselages, they are much easier to keep oriented.

Ditto for parts requirements relative to parts wear. This again is very rare because they are flown at much lower head speeds so parts wear take forever.

Consequently, making a mechanics decision relative to keeping a parts supply or local available is not all that relevant
... .

Yes this is true, concerning crash repair. I'm not expecting any chassis repairs once it is in scale mode. But I like to give my mechanics a good work-out before applying the fuselage, and I have had mis-haps. I'm not saying I thrash them about the sky, but while all the settings and adjustments are being made things can go wrong.

Are you suggesting that, given appropriate power gearing and FBL gyro settings, the Swift/Hawk heads fly better than other heads? Perhaps this should remain unanswered - I am too far down the track in my arrangements for my purchase now. I have to say a big influence was a series of detailed PMs from a very satisfied user of TRex mechanics, along with specific details for some of the components I would need.


Edit: PS The T550 tail is shaft driven.
Another EDIT: See below - I'm still looking at the Swift/Hawk

[npomeroy]

Well, the planned TRex550 purchase is being reconsidered (partly because I thought I had a prefect deal out of HongKong for both fuse and mechanics but these was a complication; also on reflection of the advantages posted above).

So I'm still looking here. Does the Hawk require a mod/upgrade to make it CCPM?
I'm not too interested in the realistic clutch spool up, and am not keen on any extra gears/bearings, but like the TT tail. On the other hand another flyer reported no problems with needing to adjust the belt for a Swift.

[Dennis P]

The Hawk is MCCPM but a option is avalible from Century to convert to ECCPM.Depending I guess on the type of FBL controller you have it may or may not support MCCPM.The one I can say that does support MCCPM is the Skookum 720 (Suitable for 120, 135/140, and 90 degree eCCPM, as well as mCCPM swashplates) Hope this helps.

[npomeroy]

Well, my purchase is on the way. I decided to let you know the decision even though it goes against the suggestions of Century enthusiasts. It is a TRex550. Here are the reasons:
- A supplier in Hong Kong was able to do a deal on both the 550 with no electrics plus a Fun-key/Century Jet Ranger fuselage (the blue fuse seemed out of stock wherever I looked in USA and Asian shiiping is cheaper).
- because I will be FBL I want the best technology for that purpose and believe the direct-drive servos will be better than the bellcrank system (I note that all the helis in ngin's videos had flybars).
- I will do a fair bit of pod and boom flying first while making adjustments (I ballast the heli with lead duaring the final stages) and the TRex 550 looks cool - I wanted one ever since the first articles on it came out. OK not logical but that's the truth.
- TRex parts are available locally.
- I'm not concerned about the perfect "fit" - I've had experience with doing mods to fit a fuse (Atom 500 in an AS350).

[ngin]

Ah, I just noticed that you are from New Zealand. As Hong Kong is a LOT closer to NZ then the USA is. So just the savings in shipping on a scale fuselage and a heli kit would make a BIG difference

[Furious Predator]

If only it worked that way....

It costs me twice as much to send an item to someone down the road in the same province as it does across the border for the same item to someone in the US.

npomeroy.

Glad you were able to come up with a decisions. Not many people would put this much home work and effort in coming up with a right choice for them.

[npomeroy]

Originally Posted by ngin

Ah, I just noticed that you are from New Zealand. As Hong Kong is a LOT closer to NZ then the USA is. So just the savings in shipping on a scale fuselage and a heli kit would make a BIG difference

Actually USA is similar or a bit closer. It's more a question of price structures.

[npomeroy]

Originally Posted by Furious Predator

If only it worked that way....

It costs me twice as much to send an item to someone down the road in the same province as it does across the border for the same item to someone in the US.

npomeroy.

Glad you were able to come up with a decisions. Not many people would put this much home work and effort in coming up with a right choice for them.

Ah, for me the planning is a big part of the pleasure.