Question about Hawk pro

[Ontaeronut]

Hi again folks,

Well after being the victim of the "cheap" starting system on the hawk *the plastic fan/starter hub sheering off*, I am seriously trying to figure out a solution.

I know that you can get a cnc almum fan and it removes the spring loaded starter shaft. However it has to use some special starting wand and that would make my $100+ align electric starter a huge waste of money.

Soooooooooooo


Anyone have any fixes? Or has anyone done the electric conversion on their hawk?

I need to do something while I wait for parts...

[MotorRotor]

Originally Posted by Ontaeronut

Hi again folks,

Well after being the victim of the "cheap" starting system on the hawk *the plastic fan/starter hub sheering off*, I am seriously trying to figure out a solution.

I know that you can get a cnc almum fan and it removes the spring loaded starter shaft. However it has to use some special starting wand and that would make my $100+ align electric starter a huge waste of money.

Soooooooooooo


Anyone have any fixes? Or has anyone done the electric conversion on their hawk?

I need to do something while I wait for parts...

I have over 500 flights on mine and never had such a problem.

Could you post a picture?

The only problem I have seen is with the cross pin at the bottom sliding to one side and causing the pin to dig in over time on the side, or damage from trying to start the engine when it is flooded.

If you take the start shaft assembly out, you will get a clear view of the start shaft with the ball at the bottom and the pin passing through it. Check page 15 of the manual for a clear picture and even a better blow up drawing on page 8 of the Hawk Sport manual.

http://www.centuryhelimedia.com/manuals/HawkSport.pdf

If you look at the bottom of the shaft, you will find that there is a threaded hole into which there should be a grub screw. This grub screw should be tightened up with thread lock applied, to ride up against the pin when it is centered. This will secure the pine to insure it does not slide out.

What usually causes motors to be flooded is the transfer of raw fuel, from the tank to the muffler through the muffler pressure line. here are some basic rules for starting ANY nitro heli and to insure your motor does not flood.
1 - make sure to pinch off the muffler pressure AND carb line when NOT in use.
2 - be sure to disconnect the muffler pressure line when refueling to insure no excess fuel gets into the muffler.
3 - to prime DO NOT put your finger on the muffler and turn the engine over. It is much better, BEFORE connecting the glow pug, to open the throttle at 1/2 and turn the motor over, until you see fuel in the carb line, and for a couple of seconds more. Then close the throttle.
4 - Now connect the glow plug (insuring it is workng properly) and now try to start the engine. It shoudl now start fairly easily.

With a nitro engined heli that uses a one-way bearings in the center of the clutch, starting flooded engines, will quickly cause the one-way to fail and a new costly clutch is in order.

There is a good two step technique for starting helis using the Hawk system on the same page 8 in the Hawk manual linked above.

[Ontaeronut]

I had never had a problem either, but a combonation of bad fuel with a low flash point and the stupid pin coming loose and going out over one end was what cleaned out the starter hub.

After all the work to replace the fan, I went out last night and tried to start the heli.. within um... four or five attempts and a turn over with a honking big electric starter...*big ass sulivan*.. well I need a new clutch fan now. That damm pin came loose again and tore up the fan again..*grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr*...

If you want, I can send you a pic of the old one and the one in there now.. all I know is now I need a new fan.. and probally a new starter shaft so it's just in case it's shot...

but seriously, anyone ever use the electric converstion? I like the hawk too much and really don't like align or blade..* don't yell at me for that*

[Lieutenant Dan]

I have to agree also, all these years and I have only broke one fan
I will say tho, if it happen's your engine was flooded it is better to brake a fan than to brake the engine

a trick I learned many years ago is (after the engine has started) I do not lift the starter up until "after" I have disengage the starter's button and the speed of the wand has slowed down some, < why>, because the starter and wand turn at a different speed than the Engine does at idle, it has worked for me all these years

[Dennis P]

I did up a electric conversion for a fellow and I flew it around here a little bit.I thought it worked great.I used the direct drive and a 1100kv motor on 6s. Ran smooth and flew great ,just like a glow Hawk. Feel free to ask question's if you have any. Take care

[MotorRotor]

Originally Posted by Ontaeronut

I had never had a problem either, but a combonation of bad fuel with a low flash point and the stupid pin coming loose and going out over one end was what cleaned out the starter hub.

After all the work to replace the fan, I went out last night and tried to start the heli.. within um... four or five attempts and a turn over with a honking big electric starter...*big ass sulivan*.. well I need a new clutch fan now. That damm pin came loose again and tore up the fan again..*grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr*...

If you want, I can send you a pic of the old one and the one in there now.. all I know is now I need a new fan.. and probally a new starter shaft so it's just in case it's shot...

but seriously, anyone ever use the electric converstion? I like the hawk too much and really don't like align or blade..* don't yell at me for that*

I do not need a picture now that you explained the pin coming loose. Are you sure that you used a good locktite on the grub screw that secures the pin, when you re-installed the pin?

Also of note is that you can remove that whole assembly and install the fan from the NX 50 which has the start coupler in the center of the fan.

http://www.centuryheli.com/products/...?prtnm=HI3009A

But if you do, you will need to use a start wand that has a one-way bearing built into it like this one:

http://www.centuryheli.com/products/...?prtnm=CN0427M

As it sounds like you are always starting a flooded or overly rich engine (idle needle setting, not main needle setting), you must be careful now because if it is too hyro-locked, you could damage the conrod on the engine. So make sure that the engine is not overly rich or partially flooded.

The best way to insure this is to tilt the heli about 70 degrees towards the muffler side when you first turn it over. This should blow out any raw fuels that are in the muffler and crankcase of the motor.

[Ontaeronut]

Thank you Dennis, that is exactly what I needed to know.

I want to get an electric heli, but after alot of reading asking questions and seeing them in person, I am a bit weary of a T-rex or Blade. I am not bashing them so please everyone, don't jump down my throat.


Throw into that mess that I love the hawk, the size, the handling and the the flying times I can get with it. However the rising cost of glow fuel, I fly airplanes as well, I can blow threw a jug in a day. It gets a wee bit expensive. All this has me really wondering what the hawk would be like as an electric.



Dennis, I will be sending you an email so I can ask you a few dozen questions.

kidding.

Only 2 dozen.....

[Ontaeronut]

Hi MotorRotor,

Originally Posted by MotorRotor

I do not need a picture now that you explained the pin coming loose. Are you sure that you used a good locktite on the grub screw that secures the pin, when you re-installed the pin?




Yup, good ol red locktite, no worries, I chaulk it down my my lack of double checking, the main problem as I said was a very bad jug of fuel.

I was using cool power 15% heli blend full synthetic fuel. With what we thought was the same as cp 20% and up.... Well then I found out that was untrue and it's only 18%.

So... we added a bit of Slotz full sythentic mix oil into the mix and that is when things went down the hill. The fuel just didn't want to run right, we tried but in the end gave up and I am using it to start a campfire. Bumping it up to Cool power 20% heli .


As I said, my complete bad, I put way too much extra stress on the starting system trying to get the motor to run right. That and with my not double checking the pin, I can see why it failed again so quickly.



thanks for the replies folks,

Carl




.

[MotorRotor]

Originally Posted by Ontaeronut

Hi MotorRotor,

I can understand as I remember many errors I made myself when I first started in helis back in 1985.

[Ontaeronut]

Well I thought I would toss in an update. Changed the fan, fixed the shaft*still waiting on parts so I can replace it completely*, and some fresh fuel.


It works flawlessly again. She started right up and idles beautifully and runs like a dream. Just like an O.S should.

Mental note to everyone... Do not belive that all Cool Power fuel has the same oil content. I found out the hard way and tried to fix it.. bad bad mistake. I will only use Cool power 20 or 30 now with the 23% oil.

Now I just have to wait for the last of this winter storm to clear up so I can go fly again. High winds and about 30cms of snow dropped since Thursday.

[Furious Predator]

another option if your starter wand has a one way bearing is to get the NX50 fan with the built in hex adapter.
http://www.centuryheli.com/products/...?prtnm=HI3009A

[MotorRotor]

Originally Posted by Furious Predator

another option if your starter wand has a one way bearing is to get the NX50 fan with the built in hex adapter.
http://www.centuryheli.com/products/...?prtnm=HI3009A

Yes, that works very well, but one must be sure to use a start wand that as the one-way built into it like this one:

http://www.centuryheli.com/products/...?prtnm=CN0427M

A nice feature is that the shaft part is replaceable and it along with its' hub pop out easily for storage in your flight box.

[Furious Predator]

Another option....but again you need a special wand, but this has the one way built into the fan. yo just need a 6mm wand to put into it.
http://www.centuryheli.com/products/...02B&pageid=387

[Ontaeronut]

Thanks guys, but I will stay with the old system, since I dropped $100+ for an Align cordless super starter with both airplane and heli attachments.

Since I replaced the fan hub and red loctited the bar on the starter shaft, *red locktite..ha..I pretty much welded that puppy in there *.... it's been working great. No flaws, the major problem was the bad fuel that basicly just loaded up the engine and caused way too much load on the hub.


Thank you all for the ideas, suggestions and help, I now see why Century fans are diehard fans and fearcly loyal to Century.

Now..anyone got anything to say about a swift carbon? Good, bad, say away from it?

son of a.... I think I am seriously hooked to helis.......

[Furious Predator]

If you want to go electric, I would honestly go with the E640 rather then the Swift. I have the Swift NX550, its is a decent little machine but if you want to put serious power through it then it needs some work. I think the Carbon versions are able to handle the power better. Seems the NX550 is more of a beginners machine.

If the E640 is anything like my N640, you will have your mind officially blown.

[Ontaeronut]

Belive me, I love the E640, but the price tag to those lipo's scares the living bejeebers out of me.... even with the cheapie HK ones...

Which is why I am looking towards a smaller bird.. and please reemmber, I am still a newb to heli's... the hawk is my first.

[Furious Predator]

then something like a swift 550 with 4S or 5S lipos would suite you well. Same blade sizes as the Hawk, even a number of the parts on head and tail are interchangeable.

The swift 550NX replacement parts are extremely cheap, and it is a very simple heli to build and maintain. So if you want a good beginners electric heli which you can upgrade as you advance, then the swift models would be the way to go. I would not go carbon simply due to costs when your a beginner, but the plastic frames handle hard 3D just fine regardless. The carbon in my opinion just looks pretty.