Nano cpx inverted tips!!!!!

[Crazykirby1225]

I have asked this same question on other threads but im bot getting any answers (( Anyone have any tips for a noob trying to get this little bird inverted??? Maybe some good settings or just explain the stick movements?? I usually pull straight back on the elev and when it's at 90 degrees I will start giving it some negative pitch... But it's almost like it doesn't have enough power to stay up I'm using stock settings and a dx6i by the way. ANY help would be great!!! I'm tired of boring fast forward flight, I want to use the full potential of my nano.

[GoatRider]

I prefer rolling to get inverted, that way I can see more exactly when the rotor disk is at 90º. Since it's not a high powered heli it needs a lot of negative. But it does fly inverted, I just had it out over my driveway. Plus a few times in the snowbank, I'm not very good at it yet.

I assume you're flipping the idle-up switch first? Just checking.

Also, spend a lot of time in a sim with the biggest heli it has. Big helis have the same motions, it's just slowed down. Gives you a little more time to think, instead of just responding. I spent most of my time with the Apache on Realflight 6.5, but recently graduated to the KDE-700, on low-rates.

[ArchmageAU]

Originally Posted by Crazykirby1225

I have asked this same question on other threads but im bot getting any answers (( Anyone have any tips for a noob trying to get this little bird inverted??? Maybe some good settings or just explain the stick movements?? I usually pull straight back on the elev and when it's at 90 degrees I will start giving it some negative pitch... But it's almost like it doesn't have enough power to stay up I'm using stock settings and a dx6i by the way. ANY help would be great!!! I'm tired of boring fast forward flight, I want to use the full potential of my nano.

This is same response I gave in the other thread. It was posted no more that 131 minutes after your original post in the sticky thread.

Three things.
1) Are you flying idle up (sport mode)? (You should be, sounds like you are in normal mode)
2) Can you hover inverted (not just flip) a heli in a sim? (You should)
3) Are your nano's blades at 0 pitch when collective stick is middled? (should be)

Correct all 3 of these and inverting in a large area should not be a problem.

The nano is a squirrelly little beast, and its hard to flip in a small space.

[Crazykirby1225]

I am in idle up lol and I have almost mastered the piro flip and othe manuvers and inveted hovering in the sim lol that's why my nano is frustrating me... I feel like I should be able to get it right by now :/ the guy at the my hobby shop said something about going a bit higher with it and the drop and at the same time flip??? He's Thai so I can't really understand him lol

[Talesin]

Sims generally bear very-little-to-no resemblance to flying actual helis... especially so when it comes to sub-micros, and even more-so with sub-sub-micros. For example, in Phoenix the mCPX model it comes with is 100% worthless aside from orientation training and maybe getting used to a CP throttle.

The real thing (mCPX and nano) have almost no head inertia, and gravity acts on them much more strongly.

Two (newbie) ways to get inverted, when you're starting out:
Rolling: (This is faster, and usually more successful)
-Go into idle-up mode. Set your DR switch to full range (100% DR, however much expo if you use it).
-Fly HIGH. Literally, as high as you can still see it clearly. For the nano, that's probably 20-30'.
-Settle into a stable hover.
-Bump the collective up, to get the heli moving upward.
-While still moving up, move collective to zero-pitch.
-Still moving up, initiate a roll with FULL RIGHT cyclic.
-Heli will start to drop like a rock. Don't panic. This is why you started out with a lot of air between the heli and ground. Wait until it's fully inverted.
-Apply negative collective to brake the fall. (On an mCPX, this is difficult to get the knack right for 'catching the egg'... on a Nano, you can pretty much just Mongo-thumb it and slap it down)
-Stabilize into an inverted hover.
As you get better, you can chain these together more smoothly. But the above is for newbies who just are learning to get it inverted reliably. Practice!

Back-flip: (This can be worked up to more easily)
-Be good at FFF (you should already, if you're considering going inverted)
-Work on stall turns; go into a deep dive, then pull out of it while going to zero pitch on the upswing, using the heli's inertia to carry it up to vertical and 'hang' midair in a stall. Then apply rudder to kick it around to nose-down, and into another deep dive.
-When comfortable with stall turns, instead of kicking the rudder, pull back on the cyclic firmly. Watch the heli 'lay back' into an inverted position. Apply negative collective before the 'hang time' is lost.
-Practice. Eventually you won't need the stall turn, and can just use a little kick of positive collective to get the upward momentum going needed to do the back-flip to invert, as with the roll above.


Just remember; while inverted, your rudder control is reversed at all times. Nose-in, your aileron is reversed. Tail-in, your elevator is reversed.
The Nano is better at actually DOING the flip (has the power to do it more easily, and with almost zero risk of blowout/overvolting), but an mCPX will be more effective/easier for actually learning inverted flight on thanks to its smoother cyclic response and greater stability.

[ArchmageAU]

Originally Posted by Crazykirby1225

I am in idle up lol and I have almost mastered the piro flip and othe manuvers and inveted hovering in the sim lol that's why my nano is frustrating me... I feel like I should be able to get it right by now :/ the guy at the my hobby shop said something about going a bit higher with it and the drop and at the same time flip??? He's Thai so I can't really understand him lol

"Posted in PM, but others may want this info too."

Cool. On the right track. Managed a 1 min invert hover with my nano for the first time this morning.

What's your pitch and throttle curves for idle up? (should be pitch 0,25,50,75,100, throttle 100,100,100,100,100)
What's your pitch curves for throttle hold? (should be pitch 0,25,50,75,100, throttle 10,10,10,10,10 {or 0,0,0,0,0 - either is fine} )

Ensure TX is in TH and IU, then connect the battery to the nano. It will take a few seconds to bind, then moving the collective, the blades should twist (check of binding).

Centre the collective stick and release TH. May twist a bit, but counter with rudder. Let the blades get to full speed before lift-off. Hover at eye level at a comfortable distance.

For the nano, when starting inverts, think of it like flipping a coin (or a plate). You must toss it up to flip and catch as it lands.

When you go to invert, add collective so the nano lifts upward, then start to apply cyclic to tip over. When 75% of the way over (not halfway), apply neg collective (a lot, you are literally catching it while it falls). Keep on the cyclic till 100% of the way over. The motor will bog a bit (which is why you want lots of negative). Once the resistance on the motor lessens, the blade speed and lift will increase.

By this time the heli will be darting off in one direction or another. Correct and juggle cyclic and collective till stable (or apply lots and flip back over).

With practice this will get easier and easier requiring less throw and catch height and less re-stabilization afterwards.

Expect to crash quite a few times.


Hope this helps.

[Crazykirby1225]

I'm drooling!!! Lol you guys gave me everything!!!I can't wait to try this!!!! Ill post a vid of my first successful flip thanks guys

[jackcutrone]

Will want to try that with my MCPx. Still practicing right-side up stuff but am anxious to try inverted. Thanks for the suggestions.

[Talesin]

Originally Posted by jackcutrone

Will want to try that with my MCPx. Still practicing right-side up stuff but am anxious to try inverted. Thanks for the suggestions.

Definitely go for the stall-turn method on the mCPX, when you're just starting out. Even the right roll can cause a tail blowout, with the power issues it has. Never had a problem with the stall turn lay-back method though.

[wifeorheli?]

I think the front flip is the best (for me) it all depends on the pilot. and YES this heli is very invert capable. Hurricanes, funnels ect... this little heli is freaking AWSOME

[13kawasaki13]

I've found that the nano flips forward way easier than it does backward in my opinion

[JAG1]

roll in or front flip to inverted is best BUT be quick on the sticks to catch it inverted!!

good luck

[a300600st]

Another factor can be your batteries. I bought some aftermarket batteries and they are MUCH harder to go inverted with because they can't put out the power needed to catch the heli well. I bought some Glaciers and was instantly able to flip the helicopter consistently where it was only once in every several tries with the other batteries.

[Crazykirby1225]

I've got some turnigy 160mAh and I think they are 30c???? Maybe not... I can't remember. Would those be good enough or would I need something with a higher discharge rate???

[ArchmageAU]

Originally Posted by Crazykirby1225

I've got some turnigy 160mAh and I think they are 30c???? Maybe not... I can't remember. Would those be good enough or would I need something with a higher discharge rate???

The nano is very hungry on burst discharge. If they are new and broken in batteries (5 cycles), then 160mAh 30C should be good. If they have done 100 flights or so, they may not be. Some of my older 150mAh 25C eFlites can barely get the nano off the ground, where as some of by newer 160mAh 30C batteries almost send it into orbit.

If the nano on IU feels like an angry hornet, and as twitchy as an epileptic under a strobe light, then flipping it should be "relatively" easy (If you call balancing a marble on a sheet of glass while jumping up and down on wet ice with inappropriate footwear easy).

If it fells like the nano on IU is recovering from a night on the town, then check 0 pitch and try newer batteries. If it is still feels hung over with 0 pitch and on new batteries, then replace the motor.

[skeppley]

Here you go.
Turn up the sound and watch in 720
You can here the small blip in positive pitch from the sound of the motor right before the flips. Its a quick blip up collective, rear elevator, down collective, blip inverted, rear elevator, and start over again. You need to toss these up like a coin as mentioned earlier.

You'll start to feel a rythm and the sounds will help a lot
Good luck, and get some vid of you doing it, or doing it and failing, because when you get it right, you can go back and laugh at yourself late

[ame]http://youtu.be/C9QuAAQU26Y[/ame]

[ArchmageAU]

Originally Posted by skeppley

Here you go.
... You need to toss these up like a coin as mentioned earlier.

http://youtu.be/C9QuAAQU26Y

Great skills and great vid. I do not have the skills yet for flip my brushed nano's inside (working on it).

This video illustrates the point of toss / catch. Remember, that this is a brushless nano (with oodles more power than the stock nano). The brushless will "catch" far quicker than the stock nano brushed motor (even in good condition with a good battery). Also controlling more power in a small space takes more skill

The larger the power/weight ratio, the quicker the catch. Larger heli's also have an advantage of blade mass vs air resistance. But why let physics get in the way of fun

All this assumes proper trim.

I'm still amazed at how much needs to be known to be self sufficient in flying and maintaining these things.

[b0r3d]

Originally Posted by skeppley

Here you go.
Turn up the sound and watch in 720
You can here the small blip in positive pitch from the sound of the motor right before the flips. Its a quick blip up collective, rear elevator, down collective, blip inverted, rear elevator, and start over again. You need to toss these up like a coin as mentioned earlier.

You'll start to feel a rythm and the sounds will help a lot
Good luck, and get some vid of you doing it, or doing it and failing, because when you get it right, you can go back and laugh at yourself late

http://youtu.be/C9QuAAQU26Y

Yeah you can tell you're pretty good with flipping it very comfortably and steady. I'm far from a pro with 3d but i've done some successful 3d wih larger birds, i'm not comfortable enough to fly hard, but you can tell in this video you are pretty tuned in.

Every time i try with this nano i feel like i don't have enough space inside to recover after it's inverted, i go in to panic and i just throw the throttle hold.

[Crazykirby1225]

The coin toss analogy is spot on!!!! After I read that I knew what had to be done and I got it done!!! Thanks so much for that push or "blip"

[ArchmageAU]

Originally Posted by Crazykirby1225

The coin toss analogy is spot on!!!! After I read that I knew what had to be done and I got it done!!! Thanks so much for that push or "blip"

Glad you made it.

Next trick is not to just flip, but flip and hold.