Modifying 3G for better performance

[darrenwootton]

No the 3G is a gyro for hight performance 3d its not designed for scale flying but it should still be able to cope with a scale helicopter do to the less demanding flying characteristic's of scale flying. Have you tested the CG of your heli it is very critical for a scale to be spot on when it comes to the balance of the helicopter, the heli would fly lots better with two blades, have you checked the phasing with the four blades, the 3G was designed for 2 blades initially.

Have you got FBL blades of normal blades? with FBL blades the 3g and the servos don't have to correct as much and you get a better stable flying heli

[Corrari]

Originally Posted by SidewaysLS4

Got the mod done on a grossly overweight 450 scaler with 4 blades. Cant say for sure what improvements there were as it is so 'slow' naturally with all the weight, but doing some elevator related tuning, I kind of wonder if the firmware in these things is looking for a certain amount of heli response and if it doesnt get it, it goes nuts.

On the aileron side of things, it is stupidly 'locked on', I get the feeling you could hit it with a baseball bat and it would laugh at you while maintaining level. Elevator...not so good. With the same numbers as aileron, it wanders, bounces, and cant really get a handle on things. Turning down the overall gain on elevator some 15 points compared to aileron and the lock down a corresponding amount, it doesnt wander and bounce nearly as much, but the 'locked on' effect definately isnt there.

I'm kind of thinking that maybe the momentum of the heli mass lengthwise is making the 3G do weird things? I would think that a higher gain level on the elevator axis would be desireable considering the amount of 'correction' needed to stop that momentum back to the desired orientation?

Maybe Align needs to come out with V2.2 firmware to address this? Something that tells the 3G that "this heli doesnt respond the same way on both axis, so wait a bit before acting goofy"? You guys think I'm thinking this out correctly?

Mickyjhonston gave me a good set up for my 600 hughes500 scaler that worked very well for scale flying. It is a 2 blade though, but might be a good starting point for you. Nice and 'soft' yet stable. I will dig up the settings for you if you like.

[Helioop]

Originally Posted by In_to_the_Mystic_2003

Can you report back results of using the Zeal?
Looks like a great idea.

So far so good. Still a hint of tail wag (I suspect other issues), but Aile and Elev are solid as a rock with my gains turned up as far as Leon's.

[Helioop]

Originally Posted by rafaelc9436

hi helipoop, did you try your mod with the tape inside, did it work like people say about the silicon, do you recommend, i know i sound to drastic but i am 16 y can't afford an other 3g if mine goes wrong, people come oon and post videos of a before and after and a proper tutorial on this mod and , the perameters on the unit box at what time are they 12,11,10,9???

I took the backing off one side of the Zeal tape, and stuck that side down. Make sure the sides of the Zeal "cube" are real clean so they stick well to the two upright sensors. Leave the backing on the top of the Zeal cube so it doesn't stick to the cover. This version of the mod works great. I can't see why it wouldn't be exactly like the blob of silicon version, other than it's reversible. It also may not trap as much heat, as air can still circulate arount the sides of the sensors while the use of too much silicon will envelope the sensors, trapping more heat. As for the gain adjustments, I'm very close to Leon's settings. You need to adjust yours to suit your setup as they are all a bit different.

[Mike3DPro]

Did the mod and I finally got done flight testing. The verdict is in: This is the single biggest improvement I've even seen with the align 3G. It has really breathed some life back into my 700E. Ever since I've had my 700, I've been doing more tweaking than flying. Now I'm about done tweaking and it flies great.

I used permatex ultra black (not high temp) rtv. I tested a blob of it on paper and let it cure and it was very soft and flexible, you could stretch it really hard and it would bounce back fine.. well I guess soft is ok too. I put a little more in there than most people, as it is a little thicker than goop and I didn't get any on the board just the sensors. I put it all the way to the top of the sensors and I put a little on the top of the box where I removed the tabs flush. I test fit and I'm positive the top made contact with the rtv on the sensors. Not a huge messy amount, but just enough to barely touch. I'm using 4010 tape/metal plate/4010 tape and a strap medium to light pressure. Using lukes settings for the most part but maybe a little lower roll and flip rates. I am so freaking happy with this heli now! Oh and I had a newer 3g with the epoxy already on the pins. Anybody needs help with the mod just pm me. THANK YOU LUKE

[michael503]

Originally Posted by darrenwootton

---
The mod is easy to do and it works, the way the mod works just goes to show you and makes you understand about all the different combination's people are using to mount the gyro, i cut both the plastic tabs of my 3g case, this is what is making the 3g not respond as good as it should.---

I've thought about that. you basically have 2 hard plastic tabs in close proximity, if not touching 2 of the sensors. Any vibration is going to cause the sensors to oscillate a bit and if they rattle against the tabs, then there will be bigger issues. taking the tabs out, or gluing the sensors to the tabs is certainly an improvement. securing the center sensor to the other 2 is even better.

[SidewaysLS4]

Corrari & Darren-

We had some good wind today tossing the heli around nicely so I could better adjust things. Looks like my overall gain values were too high. After turning them down and matching the lock gain on both A&E (at a nice higher number still), it magically turned well-behaved.

The heli is still quite a heavy pig though. It flys with 2200mah 6S packs and needs 4X 360mm blades to keep a reasonable headspeed and still have enough lift, lol. Here's a video from a few weeks ago. Gain is way high here leading me to have to babysit the elevator which had a mind of its own at times :o


[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y3bvSoUCsWA[/ame]

[jetblue2135]

I just did the mod to both 3G's on my 700N and 700E and will be trying it out first thing in the morning. I am having a problem however with the 3G on my 700E now, I went back into DIR mode to go through the setup again and when I got to the part where you test the elevator for the correct correction from the 3G the swash abruptly went full negative and the servos locked up in this position. I havn't experienced this problem yet and not sure what the problem actually is yet, nor can I figure it out! It does the same thing when I get to the aileron correction- goes full negative and does not respond to stick movement at all. The status light is flashing red/green the entire time as well.

I checked and rechecked all my wires into my receiver and into the 3G unit itself and everything is where its suppose to be. I am charging up another receiver pack to see if it could possibly be a battery low voltage situation but I highly doubt it would be that....Im kinda stumped, and frustrated at the moment.

Any ideas?

[jetblue2135]

I just did the mod to both 3G's on my 700N and 700E and will be trying it out first thing in the morning. I am having a problem however with the 3G on my 700E now, I went back into DIR mode to go through the setup again and when I got to the part where you test the elevator for the correct correction from the 3G the swash abruptly went full negative and the servos locked up in this position. I havn't experienced this problem yet and not sure what the problem actually is yet, nor can I figure it out! It does the same thing when I get to the aileron correction- goes full negative and does not respond to stick movement at all. The status light is flashing red/green the entire time as well.

I checked and rechecked all my wires into my receiver and into the 3G unit itself and everything is where its suppose to be. I am charging up another receiver pack to see if it could possibly be a battery low voltage situation but I highly doubt it would be that....Im kinda stumped, and frustrated at the moment. I used Goop BTW and only a little bit of it, just enough to make contact between the 3 sensors.

Any ideas?

[Mike3DPro]

That's odd. Are you sure there's no pins that got backed out from the sensor? It sounds like a problem with the cable from the sensor to the controller. Idk what it could be otherwise.

[Mystic3D]

Originally Posted by SidewaysLS4

Corrari & Darren-

We had some good wind today tossing the heli around nicely so I could better adjust things. Looks like my overall gain values were too high. After turning them down and matching the lock gain on both A&E (at a nice higher number still), it magically turned well-behaved.

The heli is still quite a heavy pig though. It flys with 2200mah 6S packs and needs 4X 360mm blades to keep a reasonable headspeed and still have enough lift, lol. Here's a video from a few weeks ago. Gain is way high here leading me to have to babysit the elevator which had a mind of its own at times :o

If I were a betting man.. I would say it looks ridiculiously tail heavy. The tail keeps rearing back in flight. FBL cannot deal with CG not right.

[jetblue2135]

oops my mistake with the double posts. I am going to go back in and take the gyro apart to look at it again. I did use caution when doing the mod not to damage anything or pull pins out or anything like that and it all looked good when I put it back together.

[SidewaysLS4]

Originally Posted by In_to_the_Mystic_2003

If I were a betting man.. I would say it looks ridiculiously tail heavy. The tail keeps rearing back in flight. FBL cannot deal with CG not right.

It's balanced on the main shaft. It was really touchy and squirrley on the elevator with the gain as high as it was in the video.

[RyuuChi]

alpha_&_omega and i just did this mod to our gaui 200 (his) and trex 250(mine) after a day of tuning and flying.

His 200 has a slight tail wag and my 250 a slight head bobble, but otherwise they're flying quite well. so, I'll be quite interested to see what this mod does to our birds and will definately report back!

[HiroboFreak]

Leon,

With those gain values, what tape combination are you running?

I run 3M #4010 tape on my 700n, but I doubt I will be able to run the numbers that high.
I'll be trying this weekend (weather permitting)

[kenl]

Anyone Can post 3m 4010 tape photo

[Philluoma]

I dont know how many of you are running 500e sized heli's with the 3G... But I've found pre-mod, that you need to set the heli size and delay function to the red LED for small helicopters. It performs better, and when I set it to the green LED for size I would get a tail wag in fff.

A buddy with a 550e experienced the same thing... And the issue was solved after switching it to the red LED for the 3G size and delay option.

Here's my question... I performed the mod using align zeal tape:
http://i959.photobucket.com/albums/a...5/e381a9e1.jpg

and the sensor is now mounted on 3mm futaba gyro tape- align metal plate- 3mm futaba gyro tape- 3G sensor... And all that is strapped down tight with a Velcro strap:
http://i959.photobucket.com/albums/a...5/7c59b265.jpg

I'm still tweaking settings to eliminate a tail wag... I haven't changed any of the 3G settings besides the update... And haven't switched back to the green LED for larger heli's sensitivity...

Has anyone noticed this effect with size/sensitivity setting... And which LED color are you using for which sized heli? I've got a ds650 on the tail, and needing help to eliminate the wag... I'm flying in gov mode 85 flat with the stock align esc, and running a 14tooth pinion, edge 423 FBL blades, ... stock everything else.

[SidewaysLS4]

Gov mode with the Align esc is pretty coarse...Never had any success having a calm tail with that activated

[darrenwootton]

I have took the stock tail servo off my 700 and put an align 620 and put a align 650 tail servo on the tail is almost perfect just some engine tuning now, ive also put some more gain on the tail no wag and the tail now stops just as good as a Spartan gyro. I can stop the tail on a dime with no bounce back just crisp fast tail. Very happy with the mod, before the mod I spent more time trying to fine tune the 3g setting than flying.

Time to get some real flying in now and actually practice for my first comp next year.

[edsel.labao]

Update impression: Both for my 600ESP and 700E

My Helis are flying so good it is unbelievable. My total gain now for Elev and Ail are at 80 and lock gain at 65. Absolutely no bobbles on hard stops. I also increased the Swash return speed to 70 and that made the heli feel even more locked in.

ANother tip, I added trueblood dampers and it is amazing together with this mod on my 600.

Honestly, between my friends Vbarred 600, mine flew better.