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Brand Specific Charger and Battery Support Brand Specific Charger and Battery Support |
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08-18-2013, 02:26 AM | #1 (permalink) |
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Onyx 235 vs HiTec X1 MF vs Dynamite Passport UltraForce
Hi all,
Okay, I'm looking at 1 of 3 chargers (Open to additional options) 1. DuraTrax Onyx 235 Advanced Balancing AC/DC Charger w/LCD (4S/8A) 2. Hitec X1+ AC Plus Single Port AC/DC Multi-Charger (6S/6A/50W) 3. Dynamite Passport UltraForce AC/DC Charger (6S/10A/200W) I defenitly want an AC/DC charger, I currently will only be charging 2200mAh 3S 11.1v 30C LiPo's for my Blade 450 3D heli. However I also have NiMh/NiCad's for my older R/C Truck's/Buggies, and I am sure I will end up converting my NiMh/NiCad's to LiPo's as they need replacing. So I want to make sure I can charge basically any LiPo's currently made.. I doubt that I would ever have a need to charge more then 2 batteries at 1 time. Of the 3 charger's I listed, #3 seems like the best option, due to being 200w/10a. However I don't know anything about any of those chargers, or of there is a better option out there? I know most suggest buying a DC charger and getting a power supply, but that is what I use to have when I raced Off-Road R/C cars, and it was okay then, but now I want to carry around as least as possible, so an AC/DC charger is what I am looking for. I am looking to spend less than $100 for the charger, but I would spend a little more if there was a charger that was leaps and bounds better for a little more.. Thanks! -TheChad |
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08-18-2013, 09:36 PM | #2 (permalink) |
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Anyone? I'm hoping to get something ordered tomorrow (Monday).
Thanks! -TheChad |
08-18-2013, 11:15 PM | #3 (permalink) |
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I wouldn't get any of these. 50W is way too low.. the 200W isn't too bad if you will only be flying 450s or smaller.
I would suggest anything from this link... many times the quality and customer service. These will all need external power so you can use a deep cycle or a server power supply.. usually $25-$50. http://www.progressiverc.com/chargers/battery-chargers
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"It's not just a hobby... it's a lifestyle" - Pete ϟ MINNESOTA! Goblin 500 + 700 / SK540 / Jives / DX8 / Quantum / RJX servos / 306b / Deep cycles |
08-19-2013, 12:45 AM | #4 (permalink) | |
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Quote:
I'm not trying to charge 6 5800mah packs at one time.... As I mentioned I will never have a need to charge more than 2 packs at a time and even that probably almost never.. -TheChad |
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08-19-2013, 12:51 AM | #5 (permalink) |
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I see. Well.. to me it is not the number of packs you are charging.. but the rate at which you charge... since I field charge with deep cycles as I fly. To charge a 6s5000mah pack in 15 minutes I need 15A output (or nearly 400W) for just one pack.. thats the beauty of higher output chargers.
I'll let others advise on your choices. I'd never recommend a cheap AC charger. If I took my own advice a couple years ago I would have saved probably $500.. I went through many cheap chargers... each just little better than the last. Best to get your final charger right away. With a good charger you can get by with fewer packs as well.. Now I just bring 2 packs for each heli and fly all day long.. that's a money saver!... especially if you fly $300 12s stick packs.
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"It's not just a hobby... it's a lifestyle" - Pete ϟ MINNESOTA! Goblin 500 + 700 / SK540 / Jives / DX8 / Quantum / RJX servos / 306b / Deep cycles |
08-19-2013, 01:34 AM | #6 (permalink) |
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I won't be getting a heli any larger than 450.. Which uses a 2200mAh 3S 11.1v 30c LiPo. When I eventually convert my Car's/Truck's/Biggies over to LiPo they will use 2S 7.4v LiPo's.
I can only use one battery at a time, so as long as I can charge my batteries within 20-30 minutes, I'm fine with that. Even the $99 106B+ only puts out 250w/10a and I would have to get a power supply... So that's not much more power than the 200w/10a charger I posted that's only $90.. There may be a better AC/DC charger out there though, But I haven't found it yet, thus the post... Thanks, -TheChad |
08-19-2013, 05:16 AM | #7 (permalink) |
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As discussed in your other thread, with your criteria, the Dynamite Passport would get my vote.
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Gaui X5, iKon, Edge 100, CC BEC Pro. Tarot 450 Pro FBL, Mini VBar, Ice Lite 50. BL mCP X, Nano QX, FrSky Taranis, iCharger 308Duo. |
08-19-2013, 08:04 AM | #9 (permalink) |
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There really aren't a lot of options for >80W chargers with internal AC->DC power supplies. Assuming the quality is the good, the Dynamite looks like a good choice. As you said, basically the same price as the 106B+, and the 200/250 wattage difference won't make any difference if charging 3S, because 10A of 3S is only 125W anyhow. It will limit you at 6S, but that may never be a concern.
Having Horizon behind the Dynamite can only help, their support for the Blade helis has been excellent in my experience.
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Gaui X5, iKon, Edge 100, CC BEC Pro. Tarot 450 Pro FBL, Mini VBar, Ice Lite 50. BL mCP X, Nano QX, FrSky Taranis, iCharger 308Duo. |
08-19-2013, 08:30 AM | #10 (permalink) | |
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Quote:
Aren't you only suppose to charge LiPo's at a certain rate? You can't just charge them at the max the charger will put out right? It sounds like with 200w/10a, I could feasibly charge 2 of the 3s batteries in parallel and should be able to charge up to 3 of the 2s batteries in parallel with out a problem? Thanks, -TheChad |
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08-19-2013, 09:38 AM | #11 (permalink) |
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I'd posted it in your other thread, but this site has some must-read material on LiPo charging. It also discusses parallel charging, etc:
http://www.tjinguytech.com/charging-how-tos The short answer is that you "should" charge a 2200mAh pack as 3S, 2.2A. That is a 1C charge, which is safe for every pack. 2 packs in parallel would be 3S, 4.4A. And so on. If the packs are rated to accept faster charges (my Gens Ace claim they can handle up to 5C), then you can go faster. 2C on a 2200mAh pack is 4.4A per pack. It will be a little harder on the packs. It is easier on them to charge 2 packs in parallel, at 1C per pack (4.4A total), rather than charging each pack individually at, say, 2C. Ignoring the nuances of LiPo charging, on paper, you'd have 2 packs done in the same amount of time, but doing them in parallel at lower amps per-pack is gentler on the packs. Don't simply max out the charger. You need to do the math to figure out the appropriate charge current, and be certain that is within the ratings of your packs. To be easy on the packs, charge as slowly as your patience will allow (no need to go lower than 1C, though). I now charge 2 flown packs in parallel at 3C, at the field, and they are ready again in about 13 minutes. They are rated to accept up to 5C charges.
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Gaui X5, iKon, Edge 100, CC BEC Pro. Tarot 450 Pro FBL, Mini VBar, Ice Lite 50. BL mCP X, Nano QX, FrSky Taranis, iCharger 308Duo. |
08-22-2013, 12:48 AM | #12 (permalink) |
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I have the hitec x4 thats like for of the x1's one of the chargers had issues but not including that it sucked at balance charging. say it took 15 minutes to charge a 3s 860 battery if I balanced charged it it could take anywhere from 30 to 60 minutes. or sometimes it went on much longer. finally replaced it with two 1 chargers the smallest and they are so much better. they can balance charge the pack at the same rate as it took for just do a normal charge with the hitec.
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08-22-2013, 07:54 PM | #13 (permalink) | |
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Quote:
Thank's for the reply. I ended up purchasing the Dynamite Passport Ultraforce 200w AC/DC charger. I just got it today and have only charged 1 7.2v stick pack for my Losi Spin Start. But so far seems like a good charger! -TheChad |
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08-25-2013, 07:15 PM | #14 (permalink) |
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Okay, as ya'll know, I ended up with the Dynamite 200w AC/DC charger..
The DC plug it came with is pretty weak, they used small alligator clips, which wont fit on any car battery.. I was going to install some larger alligator clips, but then I thought about installing a 12v cigarette plug instead, that way I can just plug it in inside the car. However the cigarette plug only has a 10a fuse. Will this be enough amperage to power the charger? I know it's capable of 10a charge, but I wasn't sure how many amp's it'll actually pull.. If I assume 10a x 12v = 120watts. It has a 200w power supply, So that made me wonder if the built-in power supply is just bigger than then the charger's capacity, or if it pulls more than 12v or more than 10a? Thanks! -TheChad |
08-25-2013, 08:04 PM | #15 (permalink) |
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It depends on the output voltage & amperage.
If charging 3S (12.6V max), at 10A, that's 126W. If we assumed an actual 12V input, that's 10.5A coming in (blows the fuse). In reality, if the car is running, the input might be more like 13.5V or so, for 9.3A (still pretty close). Short answer is, it's tough to predict exactly whether the 10A input fuse will be enough. You also have to consider the efficiencies at play. If the charger was, say, 90% efficient, than it will draw more input power than it puts out (126W output would require 140W input). The 200W power, and the 10A outputs, are two separate factors. You need the full 200W if you're charging 6S, for 25.2V max. That would still "only" give you 7.9A output. But if charging 1S, for 4.2V max, 10A output would only require 42W, and not needing the full 200W. So the 200W supply is not over-sized, or whatever. It being too big/too small depends on what exactly you're trying to do. Not sure if this helps, or if I misunderstood the main focus of the question. If so, sorry, let me know Incidentally, my charger lets me set input limits for current or watts (a maximum) and voltage (a minimum). I have a profile set up for charging through a cigarette lighter, to attempt to limit the power/amps drawn, to avoid blowing a fuse. You might look for something like that, as a backup.
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Gaui X5, iKon, Edge 100, CC BEC Pro. Tarot 450 Pro FBL, Mini VBar, Ice Lite 50. BL mCP X, Nano QX, FrSky Taranis, iCharger 308Duo. |
08-25-2013, 08:09 PM | #16 (permalink) |
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I don't know about the cables your charger uses.. but I bought a cheap jumper cable and cut off the clamps on one end and soldered on an EC5 (which it what charger uses to get power)
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"It's not just a hobby... it's a lifestyle" - Pete ϟ MINNESOTA! Goblin 500 + 700 / SK540 / Jives / DX8 / Quantum / RJX servos / 306b / Deep cycles |
08-25-2013, 08:15 PM | #17 (permalink) | |
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Quote:
I know my charger has a function for low voltage input, it will alarm I believe.. I did find one that had a 15A fuse, which I'm sure is probably what the fuse in the fuse panel is.. I guess the question is, worst case what's the MOST it would pull? Thanks, -TheChad |
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08-25-2013, 08:33 PM | #18 (permalink) |
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Most it would pull, let's assume only 12V (your car probably wouldn't start if the battery had gotten that low):
200W/12V= 16.7A Please check the amperage of the fuse in the car before trying a cigarette lighter adapter with a 15A fuse Otherwise you may simply get the opportunity to replace a different fuse, under the hood. The ones in our cars are 10A, for example.
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Gaui X5, iKon, Edge 100, CC BEC Pro. Tarot 450 Pro FBL, Mini VBar, Ice Lite 50. BL mCP X, Nano QX, FrSky Taranis, iCharger 308Duo. |
08-26-2013, 07:33 PM | #19 (permalink) | |
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Quote:
Thanks for the info! I will definitely check the fuse in the car first. I may just have to connect it directly to the battery... The other option I guess is I could get a power inverter, but that kind of seems silly, convert DC to AC back to DC! Anyway, different question.. I got the adaptor to be able to charge my 1S 500mAh 25C battery for my 120 SR on this charger (JST adaptor), the instructions that came with the 120 SR said to set the charger that came with it to 0.7mA. Everything I've read about LiPo says I would set it at 0.5mA. So I wonder if it said to charge it at 0.7mA because because It was such a low power charger and I should actually only charge it 0.5mA on the big charger? or is it safe to charge it at 0.7mA on the big charger as well? Also I know a LiPo will swell if it's overcharged/bad, does it get warm as well? So if I feel the battery and it's cold I don't need to worry, or does it not get warm it just swells? Thanks! -TheChad |
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08-26-2013, 08:23 PM | #20 (permalink) |
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Don't use an inverter. That will only make things worse, there are efficiency losses in the inverter, which would be plugged into the same cigarette lighter (I'm assuming), so the usable power you'd get out would be even less than if you just drew DC power directly.
Per the link in post #11, a 1C charge for a 500mAh battery is 0.5A. To be conservative, if you have the time/patience, do 1C charges, or 0.5A per pack. Packs can be charged faster, if the pack has a rating for 3C charges, etc. My packs can handle 5C, so when I'm in a rush (charging on the fly at the field, flying continuously), I charge at 3C, only when I need to. Typically I do 1C. You can charge several in parallel, just do a 1S charge, at 0.5A per pack times the quantity of packs. Parallel charging is a discussion unto itself (great info at that link). If you're talking about when charging, the LiPo should neither get warm nor swell. Mine are never warm while charging, even at 3C, and I've only got 1 pack that's slightly puffy, and that's from flying. So I can't tell you when they puff otherwise. If the pack is having a catastrophic problem (serious charging failure, etc), I believe they will puff, and get hot, before catching on fire. But waiting for those symptoms is like listening for the smoke alarm to figure out when your microwave popcorn is done
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Gaui X5, iKon, Edge 100, CC BEC Pro. Tarot 450 Pro FBL, Mini VBar, Ice Lite 50. BL mCP X, Nano QX, FrSky Taranis, iCharger 308Duo. |
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