Help with x50 build

[YBNORMAL]

Ok gentleman, I have been out of the heli side of the RC hobby for more than a few years so I am not going to know what makes up a good combo of parts. I was hoping to run my wish list by you fellas in the hopes you could steer me in the right direction. This is not my first Heli (raptor 30 many years ago), and while I am no pro, I envision this heli as one that needs to be more capable than I. So I wont outgrow it or have to spend more to upgrade as my skill level increases. I am a buy once cry once kind of guy.

What I have so far:

Titan x50tt kit assembled and ready to go
-JR 8103, no Rx, (I have some micro 8ch Rx's but don't really think these are an option)
-LiFe 2100 Rx battery
-Upgraded the pitch slider and upper and lower main shaft blocks so far
-Outrage Evo pipe for YS 56sr (I may have jumped the gun on this one, we will see what the replies to this thread have to say about that motor)
-I have all the accessories I would need for a nitro bird already, starter wand, fuel pump etc
-I ordered 5 of everything from Tower Hobbies that usually breaks in a crash (tail booms, main shafts, torque tubes, tail rotor shafts, flybar rods, spindles etc) didn't get back-up main blades yet though

My wish list:
JR 8717 cyclic servos
YS 56sr
Futaba 701 gyro/gov
unknown tail servo (should this match the gyro in terms of brand I mean?)
unknown throttle servo (should this match the cyclic)
unknown receiver
switchglo
140 degree conversion?
opinions on main blades for down the road

I am contemplating a 2.4 module for the 8103, but it wouldn't take much to convince me to start fresh with a 9303. I know nothing about Futabas equivilent offerings (been with JR for a while now), or, if going with the 701, I would be better served with a Futaba Tx. I really prefer the JR Tx's if I can help it. The LHS guy tells me the extra latency with the module in my 8103 might be bad enough to justify a new Tx, but he may of course be trying to sell me a Tx.

Thank you for any replies, YB

[KouDy]

I have no idea what are you flying. My hints are from my point of view as beginner (no 3D at all).

LiFe 2100mAh is enough. I have the same in mine and it's performing just great.

If you expect crashing then i would go for cheap main blades. Something from hobbyking like these and get some pair of Edges for later time. Or you can get some good performance ones right away, it's your call.
I plan to get either pair of FB Edges or same blades that Bob O has on his X50 because they look damn sweet .

JR DS8717 looks quite ok to me for cyclic. You can probably go cheaper with Align DS620 or Savöx SC-1258TG and not go too low with quality but JR i am sure is great choice.

I have Futaba GY520 + aerospire multigov. I originally didn't plan gov at all so went for gyro only solution first and later got governor. Otherwise i might have ended with 701 as well.

Tail servo i am going to stick with my favorite Savöx SH-1290MG. I didn't really find as fast JR alternative so maybe go with the DZ9000S which i have linked below for throttle.
Throttle servo you will want faster than cyclics. Doesn't have to be as strong as cyclics and as fast as rudder. I run Savöx SC-1257TG. With JR i think you maybe looking at JR DZ9000S.

Switchglo is not necessary if you have glow ignitor already. Just have to take canopy away every time which gets annoying sometimes. Maybe go for bigger battery capacity if you want onboard ignitor.

From my perspective 140 degrees flies exactly the same. But then i don't fly much so i wouldn't know the difference. But yes i flew 120 degrees first and now i have 140 installed and don't plan to change it back.

Radio is little tricky. If you are after latency then you may want to go for same i have - Futaba 10C + R6008HS (not the new S-Bus !!!). This combo has lowest latency out there but 10C is a bit older radio.
New Futaba stuff would be 8FG Super with R6208SB (S-Bus) as competitor to JR.
Hitec Aurora 9 is also option if you want to broad your selection. I know quite a few fols who are using it. Very popular choice (probably because receivers are cheap) nowadays.

[YBNORMAL]

Thank you so much for your reply! I will try to respond to most of your post one at a time.

Originally Posted by KouDy

I have no idea what are you flying. My hints are from my point of view as beginner (no 3D at all).

Years ago I was at the point of inverted hovering, forward flight and flips and such. So I hope to get back to that quickly and build upon that, with the advent of youtube and the great tutorial vids here and other places, learning should go much faster for me (I hope )

LiFe 2100mAh is enough. I have the same in mine and it's performing just great.

If you expect crashing then i would go for cheap main blades. Something from hobbyking like these and get some pair of Edges for later time. Or you can get some good performance ones right away, it's your call.
I plan to get either pair of FB Edges or same blades that Bob O has on his X50 because they look damn sweet .

Well, I wouldn't even think of getting into helis again if I don't expect to crash . The blades in your link look like a great value, I will be getting a few of them I think.

JR DS8717 looks quite ok to me for cyclic. You can probably go cheaper with Align DS620 or Savöx SC-1258TG and not go too low with quality but JR i am sure is great choice.

I have Futaba GY520 + aerospire multigov. I originally didn't plan gov at all so went for gyro only solution first and later got governor. Otherwise i might have ended with 701 as well.

Yeah, in the spirit of "buy once, cry once" I think I will go for the 701, I don't think I am going to go flybarless, or I would look into something like the 750. One other question, would using a futaba gyro like the 701 on a JR Tx cause me to loose any functions of the gyro/gov that would otherwise work on a futaba Tx?

Tail servo i am going to stick with my favorite Savöx SH-1290MG. I didn't really find as fast JR alternative so maybe go with the DZ9000S which i have linked below for throttle.
Throttle servo you will want faster than cyclics. Doesn't have to be as strong as cyclics and as fast as rudder. I run Savöx SC-1257TG. With JR i think you maybe looking at JR DZ9000S.

Ok, those look pretty good, I keep reading about stepping down the voltage to the tail/gyro. I see there are in-line diode types for just the servo, then inlines for the gyro as well, and finally regs that will split up voltages before the reciever allowing lower voltage to rudder, throttle, gyro, etc. Any thoughts on the best, most reliable route as far as regs go?

Switchglo is not necessary if you have glow ignitor already. Just have to take canopy away every time which gets annoying sometimes. Maybe go for bigger battery capacity if you want onboard ignitor.

I do have a glo ignitor, but for the reasons you mention I think the switchglo would be sweet. I suppose I could get a larger LiFe pack if necessary.

From my perspective 140 degrees flies exactly the same. But then i don't fly much so i wouldn't know the difference. But yes i flew 120 degrees first and now i have 140 installed and don't plan to change it back.

Ok, I may put a hold on that one for now.

Radio is little tricky. If you are after latency then you may want to go for same i have - Futaba 10C + R6008HS (not the new S-Bus !!!). This combo has lowest latency out there but 10C is a bit older radio.
New Futaba stuff would be 8FG Super with R6208SB (S-Bus) as competitor to JR.
Hitec Aurora 9 is also option if you want to broad your selection. I know quite a few fols who are using it. Very popular choice (probably because receivers are cheap) nowadays.

Yeah, I am stuck on whether or not I "need" a new radio, I don't know that my skill level would notice the extra latency of my 8103 with a 2.4 module. I DO know that I would really prefer to have the added security of the 2.4 considering the investment in the heli.

Thanks again for the help, YB

[KouDy]

Ok, a little harder to read but i got it

Years ago I was at the point of inverted hovering, forward flight and flips and such. So I hope to get back to that quickly and build upon that, with the advent of youtube and the great tutorial vids here and other places, learning should go much faster for me (I hope )

So blades i think you can proceed with cheap hobbyking stuff to save money. Hard 3D pilots need best performance but we beginners and you advanced can save some money on that.

Yeah, in the spirit of "buy once, cry once" I think I will go for the 701, I don't think I am going to go flybarless, or I would look into something like the 750. One other question, would using a futaba gyro like the 701 on a JR Tx cause me to loose any functions of the gyro/gov that would otherwise work on a futaba Tx?

You will not lose anything by using JR radio and Futaba gyro/governor. As long as you have enough channels (8) then you just need to know how to program your radio and that's it.
Yes Futaba has some more communication between radio and gyro/gov but that is only for easier settings afaik. Not really losing functions (someone correct me if i am wrong).
You see Futaba wants to sell stuff to anyone so everything you have to be able set in gyro/gov without their radio so don't worry about this.

Ok, those look pretty good, I keep reading about stepping down the voltage to the tail/gyro. I see there are in-line diode types for just the servo, then inlines for the gyro as well, and finally regs that will split up voltages before the reciever allowing lower voltage to rudder, throttle, gyro, etc. Any thoughts on the best, most reliable route as far as regs go?

You are partially right here. Futaba officially certifies only 4.8V for their gyros. I have no problem at all with GY520 on 6.0V using LiFe without any BEC.
Manual for 701 is here. Go to page 14 and you will see
Maximum* Operating Voltage: 3.8V to 8.4V DC
Therefore if you pick servo rated for 6.0V i see no reason for BEC or any mods. Just plug and enjoy

I do have a glo ignitor, but for the reasons you mention I think the switchglo would be sweet. I suppose I could get a larger LiFe pack if necessary.

You don't have to go up with capacity. Just don't forget to flip ignitor switch and you will be fine . Recharge every 5-7 tanks (that's what i do) and you are good to go.

Yeah, I am stuck on whether or not I "need" a new radio, I don't know that my skill level would notice the extra latency of my 8103 with a 2.4 module. I DO know that I would really prefer to have the added security of the 2.4 considering the investment in the heli.

Going 2.4GHz is for sure good idea but if you are on the field where there is not much interfence maybe you will be fine. Hard to say this. Consider that new radio is basically price of new heli kit so for sure it's not cheap.
Is going 2.4Ghz worth it? I myself don't know. I already started on 2.4, but i would say it's likely worth it.

[Bob O]

I don't think you can go wrong with the YS-56. Just need to get the plumbing correct with it I think is very important. As far as the EVO pipe, you can't beat the price. I've read mixed reviews on it though. Some say it's hard to tune, others say it's great. I tried the EVO-55 pipe with my OS-55 last year. The pipe had a nice sound to it and I didn't have a problem tuning it with 30% Rotor Rage. But the baffle broke in less than 20 flights the best that I can remember, so I replaced it with a Funtech B320.

The Outrage HR-56 muffler would be a decent alternative to the EVO pipe. There have been a lot of posts from people who are happier with the HR vs. the EVO. I actually bought another EVO-55 though being that it was so cheap (inexpensive). Never hurts to have a spare muffler. As I said, I actually liked it. It sounded great and I didn't notice any lack of performance over the B320 I had prior to it on a different heli. I hope this new one lasts longer than the first one I had.

Here's a video I made last summer of the muffler problem. I sent it back to Outrage and they gave me a refund on it without a problem. As far as the muffler being the cause of the bogging issue I had last year, that wasn't it at all. Turned out the main blades I was using didn't suit my flying style. I've had the best luck with Edge blades.

Again, not bashing the muffler at all. If I was, I wouldn't have wasted my time and money buying another EVO. Also, this isn't the only muffler to ever have a baffle problem. I've read about many other problems with various brands of mufflers.



Here's a pic I just took of my heli. The EVO-55 is mounted up and ready to go. The weather is supposed to be decent this weekend so hopefully I'll get to fly it again.

[johnbs8]

hope that EVO works better than the HR. i had one last a week before the baffles broke. then got 2 weeks on another. everyone i know that has owned them broke baffles in the HR after a short amount of time.

[YBNORMAL]

I forgot to bold my responses KouDy, sorry bout that, went back and edited that for ya.

Originally Posted by Bob O

I don't think you can go wrong with the YS-56. Just need to get the plumbing correct with it I think is very important. As far as the EVO pipe, you can't beat the price. I've read mixed reviews on it though. Some say it's hard to tune, others say it's great. I tried the EVO-55 pipe with my OS-55 last year. The pipe had a nice sound to it and I didn't have a problem tuning it with 30% Rotor Rage. But the baffle broke in less than 20 flights the best that I can remember, so I replaced it with a Funtech B320. <snip>

Can you expand on the need to get the plumbing "right" for me a little?

Here's a pic I just took of my heli. The EVO-55 is mounted up and ready to go. The weather is supposed to be decent this weekend so hopefully I'll get to fly it again.

That looks good! Any problems with canopy clearance? I think I will stick with the YS engine, and I guess I will see how the pipe holds up since it is already sitting on the work bench.

YB

[Bob O]

Originally Posted by johnbs8

hope that EVO works better than the HR. i had one last a week before the baffles broke. then got 2 weeks on another. everyone i know that has owned them broke baffles in the HR after a short amount of time.

The first pipe I used when I started with nitro was a HR55. Never had a problem with it. Good sound and power. Bought a B320 and sent the HR to a guy in Florida. He told me that it worked out for him just as well.

Seems to be hit and miss with the Outrage mufflers. I'll make sure to report if I have any problems with this second EVO. In all fairness, I've read of and seen many pics of Align mufflers and some others breaking off completely, as in coming apart at the seams/welds, etc.

Originally Posted by YBNORMAL

I forgot to bold my responses KouDy, sorry bout that, went back and edited that for ya.



YB

I don't have any experience with the YS motors, but it seems from what I've read where people have problems is due to the fuel tubing/routing, check valve, etc.

[KouDy]

I am quite clear about engines. I have stock Redline. When it wears off, i am going to get Novarossi probably to try it out.

[YBNORMAL]

Hi guys, I am getting closer and closer to having what I need for this build, I wanted to get some advice on my electronics set up since the options are many.

I will be running a 6.6v 2100Mah LiFe Rx battery, 8717s on cyclic, thinking about an 8900g on throttle, and probably an mp80g OR BLS 251 on the tail with a 701 gyro/gov.

I would like to run the 8717s off straight Rx battery power, as I understand it, they can handle 6.6 just fine, yes? I believe the 8900g should be kept at 4.8, as well as the mp80g or the bls251.

I will most likely be running some flavor of JR/spectrum 2.4 reciever.

What are my options for powering all this, (regulators etc) safely, effectively, and cleanly. I like the idea of the pin switch since more reliable and simpler.

Thanks for the help guys, YB

[Bikersurgeon]

hey, YB...couple of small things: I got a remote glow plug igniter and mounted it on the refueling side of the frame so the screw went into the metal engine mount (to ground it) and it is EASY and works well...and cheap. That being said I think I may retrofit a switchglo just cuz they're cool lol. My Rx battery is a 3200maH LiFe pack. The most I have found time to fly so far is 5 tanks (still running rich so about 6-7 minutes each) and on recharge it accepted right at 1800maH. The pack doesn't adversely affect the balance of the heli. Granted ALL I do is FFF, hovering, and now a few punchouts and hammerheads

[Bob O]

The EVO-55 is doing well this time around.

I run a Spektrum AR7100R. With this receiver, I'm running straight 2S voltage to all my servos. When I was running the BLS251, I ran it through the regulated rudder channel. This receiver eliminates the need for a separate voltage regulator as long as the cyclic servos can take whatever pack voltage you're using.

This receiver also comes with a fail-on switch. Sort of like a pin switch, but with a servo lead like a bind plug rather than a pin. It's been working for me for three years now.

[Bikersurgeon]

Hey bob, pardon my ignorance ( again) ...what is a fail-on pin switch? I have that receiver in mine too and obviously don't realize it's full functionality. Thanks.

[johnbs8]

fail on is exactly how it sounds. if the switch fails, it fails in the on position so you still have power.

[YBNORMAL]

Originally Posted by Bikersurgeon

hey, YB...couple of small things: I got a remote glow plug igniter and mounted it on the refueling side of the frame so the screw went into the metal engine mount (to ground it) and it is EASY and works well...and cheap. That being said I think I may retrofit a switchglo just cuz they're cool lol. My Rx battery is a 3200maH LiFe pack. The most I have found time to fly so far is 5 tanks (still running rich so about 6-7 minutes each) and on recharge it accepted right at 1800maH. The pack doesn't adversely affect the balance of the heli. Granted ALL I do is FFF, hovering, and now a few punchouts and hammerheads

Hi Biker, yes I am planning a remote glow adapter at minimum, I would like to try the switchglow but we will see if my patience can wait.....

Originally Posted by Bob O

The EVO-55 is doing well this time around.

I run a Spektrum AR7100R. With this receiver, I'm running straight 2S voltage to all my servos. When I was running the BLS251, I ran it through the regulated rudder channel. This receiver eliminates the need for a separate voltage regulator as long as the cyclic servos can take whatever pack voltage you're using.

This receiver also comes with a fail-on switch. Sort of like a pin switch, but with a servo lead like a bind plug rather than a pin. It's been working for me for three years now.

Ok, this sounds like it could work, the rudder channel on the reciever will keep the rudder servo AND the 701 gyro at a nice 4.8v, correct? The gain lead is not going to see full battery voltage so no concern there, correct?

Now the only other thing is what to do with the throttle servo. The one I was planning to run is technically a tail servo that should only get 4.8V. Should I be looking at a different servo for simplicity sake. Or use an inline stepdown etc, or is there some product out there that would work for me. I have seen spektrums dual input/output reg, do they make a single in/out or is there something better/cleaner out there?

EDIT:
Looking at the PDF for the 701, I would be hooking up the throttle servo to my gov (duh ). So I guess my question has been answered. The Rx will be supplying 4.8 to the gyro/gov, so the tail and throttle servo will see only 4.8 as well. This will work out perfectly........

YB

[Bob O]

Sent from my phone

[NitroAl]

If you are going to use the 701 then you could save a few dollars by getting the AR7100, the AR7100r has a built in rev limiter so you could possibly save more coin by getting the GY520. No point in having two Gov's!
Like Johnbs8 I run the 8717's at 2s LiPo voltage of the 7100r and the spektrum H6040 throttle servo and BLS251 off the 5.2v side. The 8717's have been running at this voltage for nearly 3 years with heaps of crashes without a glitch!
A nice alternative for the rudder is the outrage BL9188 which works VERY well from 5.2v to 8.4v and looks bling too!
I just added another X50f to my fleet and this one will get a Kongpower 3600mah LiPo, AR7100r Outrage servo's all round and the TT G-T5, this is the neatest setup I have had in a heli to date and thats a lot of setups!

[YBNORMAL]

Originally Posted by NitroAl

If you are going to use the 701 then you could save a few dollars by getting the AR7100, the AR7100r has a built in rev limiter so you could possibly save more coin by getting the GY520. No point in having two Gov's!

Ok, I'm with you on this one, what type of adjustability will I have running the 7100r with a 520? Would I just set a high flat throttle curve and the rev limiter would keep it in check? Does it use a crank sensor or fan magnets etc? Does running the 520/7100r allow me to change headspeed at the Tx (with a JR 9503), does the 701/7100?


Like Johnbs8 I run the 8717's at 2s LiPo voltage of the 7100r and the spektrum H6040 throttle servo and BLS251 off the 5.2v side. The 8717's have been running at this voltage for nearly 3 years with heaps of crashes without a glitch!
A nice alternative for the rudder is the outrage BL9188 which works VERY well from 5.2v to 8.4v and looks bling too!
I just added another X50f to my fleet and this one will get a Kongpower 3600mah LiPo, AR7100r Outrage servo's all round and the TT G-T5, this is the neatest setup I have had in a heli to date and thats a lot of setups!

I will look into this further, although I have already purchased the LiFe and charger......

YB

[YBNORMAL]

Ok, running into some problems. I have my servos installed in the heli, 8717s on cyclic, 8900g on throttle, mp80g on the tail. I have an old 7 channel pcm reciever and a spare NiMH powering things up for setup purposes. The problem is that the mp80g is moving very rough, as if it has very low resolution? It's very fast, but is not moving smoothly at all.

Any thoughts? The plan is to eventually run an AR7100/R and a 701 or 520 gyro, with a 6.6 LiFe, haven't decided yet on a gov or the "R"s rev limiter.

I have read some of the info out there about the high freq vibes of this servo near center stick with high voltage, hence the NiMH Rx batt for now. There isn't a ton of info out there for this servo other than some guys saying it will vibrate with high voltage, JR says this should be a non issue in flight. I have not come across anything like my what mine is doing though?

YB

[b_s_chance]

need to check the center pulse of the servo..i dont know any thing about that specific servo but some of the newer dedicated tail servos run on a non standard center pulse..1520 is a standard for cyclic,throttle and some of the newer tails are on 960 or 760...also the ar7100r is a rev limiter only... not a gov...if i were u i would go with the 701 there is a lot to gain by having the gov and gyro together basicly the gyro knows when you are giving more throttle and pre compensates the tail to hold it very locked as oposed to waiteing for it to sense movement and then correcting...as far as the reg or bec pm me if you are interested i have 2 very nice options for you for fairley cheap both are used but in excelent condition.also both regs have built in push button glow igniters!