hyperion phase sensor installation

[Castel]

I see that you have TM1000 telemetry modules in your hangar. If you Use a TM1000 and connect the sensor to the RPM it will get the lower voltage. Then all you need to do is split the signal wire to the SK-720 IO-C pprt as well and you'll have both governor and RPM telemetry. I posted a detailed answer and wiring for this on post #20 of this thread.

If you don't want to use the TM1000 I would use a step down. Even a diode to drop it to 5.3V is better than the full 6V and it's dirt cheap, no reason to skip it.

Originally Posted by johnahamelv

What is the maximum voltage that the Hyperion sensor can tolerate? I am planning on running the electronics at 6.0 V. I am concerned because page 16 of the SK-720 3.1v manual (discussion of RPM sensors) states:

"Most sensors will be damaged by voltage higher than 5.5V. If you are using HV servos on your heli, the SK 720 will output the higher voltage to the RPM sensor. Using a step-down to the sensor will be necessary if you use HV servos."

How are you guys dealing with this voltage issue?

[jhamel]

Originally Posted by Castel

I see that you have TM1000 telemetry modules in your hangar. If you Use a TM1000 and connect the sensor to the RPM it will get the lower voltage. Then all you need to do is split the signal wire to the SK-720 IO-C pprt as well and you'll have both governor and RPM telemetry. I posted a detailed answer and wiring for this on post #20 of this thread.

If you don't want to use the TM1000 I would use a step down. Even a diode to drop it to 5.3V is better than the full 6V and it's dirt cheap, no reason to skip it.

Thanks for the advice. I read your thread ealier. Also, Spikestabber mentions on post #11 of these thread that the TM1000 brings the voltage that the RPM sees down to 3.2V. I'll verify this with my multimeter.

These are the issues and corresponding plans:

(1) I have both the Hyperion sensor (single motor wire), and the Spektrum sensor for the TM1000 (2 motor wires). According to Art, "Hyperion seems to give a smoother output". So I'll go with the Hyperion, and sell the Spektrum on eBay.

(2) Even though the Spektrum sensor is made by Eagle Tree, apparently the Spektrum has the correct wiring (no reversal of power and ground). Is this correct? This would be helpful information in simplifying the wiring.

(3) Once I figure out the correct pins in the TM1000 (power, ground, signal), I will splice the Hyperion servo connector so that all three wires connect to the TM1000, but only the signal and ground wires connect to the SK-720/Power Bus. This way, the Hyperion will be powered by the TM1000 at the apparent 3.2V, but still deliver signal to the SK-720 without seeing the 6.0v from the SK-720.

Do these connections sound correct?

[Castel]

Originally Posted by johnahamelv

Thanks for the advice. I read your thread ealier. Also, Spikestabber mentions on post #11 of these thread that the TM1000 brings the voltage that the RPM sees down to 3.2V. I'll verify this with my multimeter.

These are the issues and corresponding plans:

(1) I have both the Hyperion sensor (single motor wire), and the Spektrum sensor for the TM1000 (2 motor wires). According to Art, "Hyperion seems to give a smoother output". So I'll go with the Hyperion, and sell the Spektrum on eBay.

(2) Even though the Spektrum sensor is made by Eagle Tree, apparently the Spektrum has the correct wiring (no reversal of power and ground). Is this correct? This would be helpful information in simplifying the wiring.

(3) Once I figure out the correct pins in the TM1000 (power, ground, signal), I will splice the Hyperion servo connector so that all three wires connect to the TM1000, but only the signal and ground wires connect to the SK-720/Power Bus. This way, the Hyperion will be powered by the TM1000 at the apparent 3.2V, but still deliver signal to the SK-720 without seeing the 6.0v from the SK-720.

Do these connections sound correct?

Everything you have said is correct.

1. I tried both Spektrum/Eagle Tree and Hyperion sensors and decided to go with Hyperion, it gave me a more stable signal although both will work, I would sell the Spektrum.

2. The Spektrum one does have the correct wiring, no need to reverse even though it is an Eagle Tree.

3. Yes, this is correct. All 3 wires to TM1000 BUT you only need to pass the signal to the SK as well, no need for ground since it's common ground and the SK has it already from the Power Bus/servo wires.

I'll go further as to recommend the wiring of the sensor THROUGH the Power Bus to the SK. This will limit the amount of wires going to the SK for vibes and use the existing power bus servo connections to the SK, no additional wiring. Check out this thread, specifically post #14:

https://www.helifreak.com/showthread.php?t=385437

The Governor + Telemetry on your radio function is awesome!

Good luck!

[taoY]

Yeah, Castel is back!

[georgi UK]

Originally Posted by johnahamelv

What is the maximum voltage that the Hyperion sensor can tolerate? I am planning on running the electronics at 6.0 V. I am concerned because page 16 of the SK-720 3.1v manual (discussion of RPM sensors) states:

"Most sensors will be damaged by voltage higher than 5.5V. If you are using HV servos on your heli, the SK 720 will output the higher voltage to the RPM sensor. Using a step-down to the sensor will be necessary if you use HV servos."

How are you guys dealing with this voltage issue?

=] interesting that you should ask this John! my recent email to Hyperion =

Sent: 07 February 2012 08:37 To: George McAllister

Hi George,

Thank you very much for your email. I will send the email through to
somebody who can give you a clear answer to your question.

There might be a little waiting time due to the individual being out of
the office. Thank you for your patience.

Best Regards,

Katherina Laursen
Hyperion Europe

Jernholmen 48D
DK-2650 Hvidovre
DENMARK

+45 70 270 620
+45 70 270 640 (FAX)

info@hyperion-eu.com
www.hyperion-eu.com

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: Your Hyperion EU Order has shipped
From: George McAllister <gmcallister@ocvc.ac.uk>
To: Hyperion Europe <info@hyperion-eu.com>
Date: 06/02/12 13.02
> Thank you,
>
> Can you please confirm the maximum rated voltage for this sensor?
>
> Regards,
>
> George.
> ________________________________________



when they respond I will confirm this. I'm running two heli's with 2S packs directly to the sensor, loads of flights, not a problem!

[Castel]

Originally Posted by taoY

Yeah, Castel is back!

Haha, thanks Daniel!

[jhamel]

Thank you all for helping me figure out how to best wire my connections. Although I will not be able to use the SK-720 governor yet (I am using a CC 120HV ESC), I want to have the wiring ready to go for when Castle finally releases a Hyperion sensor compatible ESC firmware.

[soko]

@taoY
All I can say is that I'm uskng the sensor for arround 50 flights now @ 6.0V and had no problems yet!

Just be sure to reset and resetup the trottle points and maybe stick points after activating the governor mode.
I did forgot about the trottle points and the gov stopped working during flights

Soko

[jhamel]

Out of curiosity, is there a reason why the Hyperion sensor only uses one of the motor wires, whereas the Spektrum/Eagle Tree sensors use 2 motor wires?

[taoY]

Originally Posted by soko

@taoY
All I can say is that I'm uskng the sensor for arround 50 flights now @ 6.0V and had no problems yet!

Soko

... Is this for John instead? Mine is hooked up to TM1000/TM1100 (3.3v) as Castel described. Over 500 flights no issue.

Don't forget to enabled the rpm sensor in the software before plugging in. Georgi mentioned this numerous times.

Good luck

[taoY]

Originally Posted by johnahamelv

Out of curiosity, is there a reason why the Hyperion sensor only uses one of the motor wires, whereas the Spektrum/Eagle Tree sensors use 2 motor wires?

John,
Hope someone has the answer for you.

I have Eagle Tree in my spare drawer. The manual says the sensor works on some motor with wire 1 attached. However, it does not elaborate which motor works which does not.

[Groucho_]

Something you may want to keep in mind when powering the RPM sensor from the TM1000 is that if the TM unit fails, your governor fails with it...

I have an issue with my TM1000 in that after about three minutes, it loses connection when I draw some bursts of power from the flight battery, say with a loop or flip or pitch pump.

What happens is that I hear lots of beeping and the DX8 screen shows the TM data flickering on and off.

This is with all electronics powered through a BEC @ 6V, and with a Voltz 5100 35C battery, so you could have different and better results with different configurations.

[jhamel]

Originally Posted by Groucho_

I have an issue with my TM1000 in that after about three minutes, it loses connection when I draw some bursts of power from the flight battery, say with a loop or flip or pitch pump.

It would be good to know the operating voltage range for the Hyperion sensor. This information does not seem to be easily accessible.

[Castel]

Groucho_, this is an "alarm" that the system is giving you. Specially if it happens during hard flips and maneuvers like that. Your power system is seeing voltage drops, the BEC is not able to supply enough current to the servos during these maneuvers and the TM is affected. This is also not good for your receiver or the SK and your overall reliability, I would address it.

Do this test. I assume you are using a DX8 with telemetry. Your TX has the option of keeping a log of maximum and minimum recorded values of telemetry data. Scroll the wheel until you see max/min telemetry data. Press clear so that the values are reset to what the unit is seeing. Then play with the swash servos and tail and see how much the RX voltage drops (not flight pack). It shouldn't drop, it will be recorded as a min value. I would upgrade your BEC or, even easier, plug this into one of the free ports in the Power Bus:

http://www.horizonhobby.com/products...tector-SPM1600

It's a simple capacitor that will store charge and supply it under heavy spike loads like what you are seeing. It will maintain the voltage and just help. I use that exact one and I have one of the best BECs, 10A WR Super BEC but I also have very hungry swash servos. The capacitor helps to keep voltage steady and avoid spikes, the TM1000 should be 100% reliable. Otherwise it wouldn't be of good value to keep track of TX/RX signal strength and overall model reliability .

The issue is not the power bursts on your flight battery, 6V servo bus voltage is much lower than what your flight pack voltage would ever drop to. It is the bursts of load on the swash servos with high pitch angle changes. This puts a lot of force on the servos and they consume tons of current trying to hold position. Check the stall current of a servo and multiply X 3 swash servos and you'll see. The BEC is unable to supply all the current demanded under this spikes so voltage sags. For $6 for the capacitor I would try it out and use all your system's features without compromises .

One more thing is that if the sensor fails the SK goes into "fail safe" for RPM control. It would keep RPMs to 70% of throttle or something like that, it won't fall out of the sky. You'll just get lower RPMS and see that they are not governed so you can address it if it happens.

[georgi UK]

=] where??

[Castel]

Good reply . The SK log won't pick it up, its voltage source is also sagging. It's also possible that the sampling rate of the SK is not as fast as the sampling rate of the TM1000/TX logger which is intended for that. In my case the SK was oblivious to the voltage drop. Only true way to see it is with an oscilloscope but the DX8 log can catch it. It's easy to check since he has it (10 seconds and free) and for $6 I would definitely give it a try .

[Groucho_]

Castel, thanks for the in-depth analysis!

I had already done the test you suggested. In fact there was a voltage drop of 0.1 volts when I went crazy with the servos. At the time, I just though it par for the course...

I am using a similar BEC to yours. Specifically the WR Hercules super mini. I believe it is rated at a slightly higher amperage than the 10A of the Super. I was under the impression that it could cope with the demands of my 550 setup when I purchased it. Now I'm a bit disappointed that it cannot.

With regards to the capacitor, I had seen it and considered it. I didn't get one because there was something on spektrum's site about it not being intended for aircraft use. Still, if you use it and it works, I'll definitely try it. In fact I could make one myself. It seems to be 4700 micro farads. Did you try this with a 6v setup?

The governor fail safe is certainly a good feature in the SK. Before installing the RPM sensor and activating the governor, I had actually checked the manual to see what would happen were the sensor to somehow fail. In my case, being quite unlucky with anything of the sort, this is actually not a question of 'if' but of 'when'

So essentially the solutions are either:

i) More powerful BEC. (What would that be)

ii) Capacitor attached to BEC

iii) Turn off TM1000

Correct?

[Castel]

You are correct although I'll try the cheapest option first. The Mini-BEC should be ok too and I understand what you are saying about being disappointed, I felt the same way . I know about the "not intended for aircraft use" message, still as you say, a capacitor is a capacitor so it's totally fine. An aircraft use one would be probably a little larger like what Hobbyking sells but this one was enough and did the trick for me. This one is 4700uF and as long as it's rated for 10V or more it should be fine. It's a cheap test so I would definitely give it a try. Let us know!

Also, just as a sanity check, can you wiggle the TM1000 wires and the sensor wires to make sure it's not a bad contact or anything? Always good to check the easiest things first.

[Groucho_]

Originally Posted by Castel

You are correct although I'll try the cheapest option first.

Yes, I'm definitely trying a capacitor first.

Originally Posted by Castel

An aircraft use one would be probably a little larger like what Hobbyking sells

Since you mentioned HK, I went and found this:

http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...dProduct=17100

Seems like it can do a bit more than the Spektrum 4700uF with its capacity...

Originally Posted by Castel

Also, just as a sanity check, can you wiggle the TM1000 wires and the sensor wires to make sure it's not a bad contact or anything? Always good to check the easiest things first.

The TM1000 power input cable was actually re-routed and connected directly to the BEC before I flew yesterday, and that didn't change its behaviour unfortunately.The sensor wires had also been disconnected and reconnected when I needed to bind and reposition the TM1000...

Oh well, I'll post my findings with a capacitor ASAP...

[Groucho_]

Thought this may be of interest here.

Western Robotics has released a new version of the Hercules Super Mini BEC.

Hercules Super Mini BEC G2 is what they're calling it.

See it at http://www.western-robotics.com/herc...r-mini_hp.html

Continuous current is still rated at 10 Amps, but peak has been bumped up from the old 12 or 15 to 20.

They also have a new 'Boost Mode feature to protect against system brownouts'...