Mezon with 4530 size motor?

[cbdane]

Does anyone have any experience with the Mezon 130 running a larger 50mm size motor? Specifically, I'm trying to run two (one Mezon each) KDE 700-535 (4530, 5T+5T, YY) in a Velos 880. I believe this motor is pretty equivalent to the Scorpion 4530. Is it possible that this is just too much motor for the Mezon? Two Mezons have failed during spool-up (two different motors) before the head reached full speed.

I had the Mezons configured to 8kHz, 10-deg, auto-10% start-up power.

[prototype3a]

I used to run a scorpion 4530-450 with a Mezon 130hv on a Gaui x7.

I doubt they failed simply because the motor(s) are too big. I would bet that something else is going on.

[aziz76]

I have ran it with a Scorpion 4535 Masterpiece on a Diabolo 700 with no issues. I agree with prototype, must be something else causing it.

[cbdane]

Thanks guys; that's very helpful. I'm developing a theory. When I first tried to spool up, the ramp was too fast and the blades were slightly folding (tight bolts but big 880mm blades). Years ago on the Mezon on my TDR, I lowered the startup power and this has taken care of a similar problem with no issues over 100's of flights. In the case of this heli, I set it first to Auto-50%; the blades turned a few revolutions slowly, didn't reach speed, and poof! After replacing the damaged Mezon (stolen from my TDR), I moved the start-up power back to -10% (next day) and the second ESC popped during what looked like it would be a normal start-up. The first setting may have caused some internal damage in both ESCs. Lesson: caution with this setting.

Unfortunately, I was running on the BEC from one ESC (dual motor system) and it spiked as it failed, taking out all 5 servos. I thought the Vbar was also dead but it turns out to be just the servos (MKS X8s).

I'm not sure whether to trust the Neo now but it seems to work fine. The log shows no issues during the event.

[Only Fine Helis]

I am currently running two mezon 130's both set to auto-50% with xnova 4530's with no issues. One is with a 3 bladed head.

[Mattinfla]

Was it the same side of the power train both times? Is it possible that one of the OWBs is slipping, placing the full spool-up load on a single motor?

[_Dekker]

Originally Posted by cbdane

Thanks guys; that's very helpful. I'm developing a theory. When I first tried to spool up, the ramp was too fast and the blades were slightly folding (tight bolts but big 880mm blades). Years ago on the Mezon on my TDR, I lowered the startup power and this has taken care of a similar problem with no issues over 100's of flights. In the case of this heli, I set it first to Auto-50%; the blades turned a few revolutions slowly, didn't reach speed, and poof!

Which motor did you use back then?
I think the KDE motors are suspect (iron quality/magnetic circuit) unless you ran them reliably in the past.
Personally I also used the HK4530 paired with a Mezon with great success.

[cbdane]

Originally Posted by Mattinfla

Was it the same side of the power train both times? Is it possible that one of the OWBs is slipping, placing the full spool-up load on a single motor?

One failure on each motor.

Originally Posted by _Dekker

Which motor did you use back then?
I think the KDE motors are suspect (iron quality/magnetic circuit) unless you ran them reliably in the past.
Personally I also used the HK4530 paired with a Mezon with great success.

Older Kontronik Pyro 700. Still going strong.

[Kiba]

Never had any issues running my Mezon 130 with an Align 750MX-530, Quantum 4530-500, or Xera 4530-500. It ran great with all of those, but eventually I swapped the Mezon for a Kosmik because I was unhappy with the Mezon's governor behavior at lower headspeeds / throttle percentages.

I do remember the KDE motors often causing troubles with Kontronik Jive ESCs because of low inductance. The Jives would often error out during initialization because of the low inductance. Perhaps the Jeti doesn't have as robust of a self check & motor check during power up and instead it suffered a commutation failure during spoolup?

[Puttputt maru]

Well so far I had 2 Mezon burn on me on spool up. No fire just temperature high as announced by the telemetry. The motor would not turn anymore and the Mezon smelled burned but the servo controls were still effective.

In one case it was a Pyro 700-50 and the other a KDE700XF-495 start up power was at -40 and -30 respectively. Both worked fine for a full summer and stopped working the next.

[cbdane]

Originally Posted by Puttputt maru

No fire just temperature high as announced by the telemetry.

As I discussed with James at Esprit today, it wasn't "fire" as in the ESC turns to charcoal. Flames and smoke shot out (with a loud "pop") through the gaps around the caps. After the fact, they smelled horrible but you could sit them on the bench and think they almost look undamaged. The inside of the frames did get coated with black soot, though.

What you describe sounds similar to my failures; just a bit less dramatic.

[Puttputt maru]

Yes I spoke to James too and it seems that the Mezon is sensitive to start power values, if it is low the Mezon will tend to pop especially with helicopters in the 700 range.

[prototype3a]

I wonder why a low start power value would cause it to fail.

[markrj]

I currently have my Start Power at -50%. Using a Scorpion HKIII 4035 500kv.

It's been working great.

[Puttputt maru]

Originally Posted by markrj

I currently have my Start Power at -50%. Using a Scorpion HKIII 4035 500kv.

It's been working great.

Count yourself among the chosen ones. But in all fairness James said, it seems to happen on a 50/50 chance basis. I have 2 other 700 helicopters still going strong with the Mezon, one on a KDE the other on a Pyro.

[aziz76]

I too have it on two birds with startup power -50 on a pyro 700. Guess I'm one of the lucky ones

[markrj]

Originally Posted by Puttputt maru

Count yourself among the chosen ones. But in all fairness James said, it seems to happen on a 50/50 chance basis. I have 2 other 700 helicopters still going strong with the Mezon, one on a KDE the other on a Pyro.

My first Mezon did fry on the bench. I'm pretty sure I had the Start Power at -20%. James brought my warranty replacement to IRCHA. After getting everything soldered up and installed, Shannon told me to use -50.

It's been working great. I hope it continues to work as I really don't want to use anything else. I have become accustomed to this integrated telemetry stuff.