FBL setup troubles

[dcope17]

I'm totally new to FBL systems. I bought a used GT5 just to play with on my Blade 400.
Then I found a good deal on a new TT Titan X50E and so I already had the FBL unit...

Now that I'm up and running, I have tail wag problems. NORM is 1800 RPM, ST1 is 2000RPM and ST2 is 2150 RPM. I never have any wag in Norm... slight in ST1 and bad in ST2

I changed NORM to 2000RPM and I get wag there... so the Tx isn't adding gain or anything when I go to ST1 or 2

I have changed the gain to higher and lower ( I can hear the fast correction when the gain is higher but still no wag ), Changed D and I amount, changed dead baud up and down for both the sensor and the servo. Increased servo 45deg time, changed holes on the servo arm closer to center. No linkage binding. Balanced main blades ( just in case of vibration ) changed sensor vibration all up and down the scale. Doing any of these changes hasn't changed the wag in the slightest. It always does the same amount and the same frequency back and forth.
Only thing I haven't done is swap tail servos. Or tried different tail blades.

Since buying, I've had to buy a new charger to charge 6S packs, servos... I don't want to spend any more money on this heli if I can help it.

Any other suggestions greatly appreciated.

If no GT5 help, then what FBL unit to change to?
I've thought of the AR7200BX ( $235 buying a 300X )but don't like that I cannot plug satellites into it...
Thought about the micro beast... $200
V-bar but don't know what is what there???

Thanks for any input...
Dan

[Vinger]

Dedicated threads on HF for your heli and unit, might find some help there. Constant wag is an indication of mechanical drag on your tail system. But check in the other threads

[newbheliusr]

The AR7200BX can take one satellite connected to it. Which makes it fine since it's a full receiver with a beastx built in. So adding one satellite is possible, as it just plugs in to the AR7200BX. I would not buy the regular beastx as it's older and outdated really. Don't get me wrong, it's a fine unit, but you must either use one sat with a special cable, or you need to use a full RX. You cannot use 2 sats on a regular beastx.

Vbar can take two sats no problem, or a full range RX. There is a difference between the full size vbar and a mini vbar as the wiring will be different to connect it to your heli. But the Vbar is much better (IMO) than the beastx.

As far as your wag, I would probably suspect your tail is binding somewhere. I went over this with a friend the other day. The tail needs to be silky smooth, no scratchy areas, nothing. As when the tail is under a load this will amplify whatever issue you have. So having a super smooth tail is where it's at.

[TowPilot]

The GT5 on a TDR

https://www.helifreak.com/showthread.php?t=343454


Manuals for the GT5
http://www.thundertiger.com/product/8085.html

Manuals for the GT5.1
http://www.thundertiger.com/product/8088.html

Starters,
Mike

[TomC]

Dan,

Best advice I can give you is to go out and find some local heli advice, even if you need to travel 50-100 miles to do so. A trip or two will pay for the $'s you will spend trying to setup a fbl heli by yourself imho.

Good luck and cheers,
TomC

[dcope17]

I will go over the tail linkages and see if I can make them smother. At least, if I notice a change, then I know I'm working in the right place.
I didn't think I could find much help ( especially locally ) with my dated FBL unit. I guess it never hurts to look.
I won't give up yet... I'll let you know what I find out playing with it later on today.

[almigurt]

Gt5 doesn't support gain switching very good yet. You'll need v5.2 for it.

Its best to set up with 100% gain + the highest desired rpm.

Did you set up p for tail properly?

How does it wag? More machinegun like(pewpewpew) or is it more a slight, slow, slingering?

[Bladecpnitro]

If you take the rudder arm loose from the rudder servo you can easily tell if you have any binding by operating the rod.

Another thing I do on my EXI 450 and I don't know that it makes a lot of difference is to trim the tail blades with 8 degrees of right rudder when the rudder servo is centered. I learned on Futaba 401 clone gyros as well as the Futaba GY 520 and thats how they were setup.

Most gyros you can easily do this in rate mode. The GT-5 has no rate mode so the only shot you get without using an RX to center the rudder servo is to reboot it and take note of the pitch on the tail blades before the heli gets moved. If you turn the tail blades until one is strait up and fold it over backwards then looking over the nose of the heli when the heli first boots up the top tail blade should be aimed to the right about 8 degrees.
Also if you are sure your rudder servo is centered you can just manually move the servo arm to its 90 degree center and and the 8 degrees of right rudder in without all the rebooting.

Gary Wright suggested getting someone to watch the bird in a hover and observe the postion of the rudder servo to see if its able to maintain 90 degree center. If not adjust the rod accordingly. Longer rod to move the servo arm forward.


I seriously doubt that will stop the wagging but you never know. It might be a ball link out to far on the rudder servo. Also if you use too much of the tail stop in the gyro it can cause wagging during flips and what not.

The best thing to do is copy someones settings who already have the GT-5 working perfectly in an X-50e. I think there is a guy posting in the GT-5 forum who has one.

[almigurt]

Err..yes.. I do


P70, some dma, rest default.



Depends much on servo linkage length, rpm etc.


To check tail smoothness: Tail should go without resistance. Clip out the linkage on the servo,, blow against a 90-degree turned tailblade. It should flap around.

[dcope17]

I only used the gain switch because it says to... I plan on setting it and forgetting it. No need for the switch. I believe the switch is for testing only. That if things oscillate, you can back off the gain and land safely. I don't plan on using it once everything is set.
I went by the LHS and let the heli guy look at it. Says the tails is smooth... Not binding. It could always be smoother, but he feels nothing that would cause the wag.
In ST1 and ST2... The tail will wag even before lifting off. I bought an extension to plug the tail servo into the Rx directly. I'll spool it but leave it on the ground and go to ST1 and 2.
This will only eliminate a possible bad servo... But this way, I will know that the FBL unit is sending the oscillation.
More after dinner then some checking.

[almigurt]

What are your p I d settings on tail gyro?

[dcope17]

P is 85, I is 75 and D is maybe 20??? Can't remember.
I get no wag in NORM with P adjusted from 0 - 100. ( tried 0, 10, 20, 40, 60, 80, and 100)
I can tell when the gain is higher from the quick reacting sounds of the tail... So the P gain is working.
I'll get a video tonight if I have enough light when I get home.

[almigurt]

For me it sounds, that p is to high for st1+2




D 'd be around 5, not higher. For setting up P you can pur t D to zero. It determines how hard your tail stops after releaseing your stick.

I... Well stick at 50-60 for setup
P is quite high too ( depends on servospeed&armlength) low p causes slow wag, high p causes machinegun wag(pwepwepwepwe!)

Set p as high as possible (please choose m yr highest rpm) first
Just as high as you dont hear cottrdšş SSD Dr
Then.adjust I - just as high thay
t your heli performs constant piros during fff.

[dcope17]

I have run the P gain @ 80, 60, 40, 20, 10 and 0 with the same results.

I'm gonna try shortening the servo arm. ( it's on the furthest out hole ) maybe the servo lacks precision at that distance from center.
Shorter has more precision and power but less speed.
Maybe other things like different double stick servo tape... Maybe even a different tail servo.