Suggestions for noob...

[Indychus]

I know there's like 40 of these threads here, but mine's a little different. After a lot of time with an mSR, 120 SR, and sims, I just got a 425 plastic kit and am starting to shop around for my electronics.

Basically, I have no interest in 3D... ever. I want a heli that is super stable and easy to learn on, but able to punch out quickly and do blazing FFF and maybe some sport aerobatics eventually. I don't really have a budget, so whatever works best I'll do.

It seems like all of the really high-end parts are for 3D machines, and I'm afraid I'll end up with something so sensitive and twitchy that I can't learn to fly on it.

I'm also capable of fabricating anything necessary, so larger motors and components that are not designed for this airframe are not out of the question.

So... stable, but retarded fast... suggestions??

[Jack2010]

Maybe this will help you: https://www.helifreak.com/showthread.php?t=271964

[Indychus]

I'm considering this motor:

http://www.scorpionsystem.com/catalo...0/HK30-1400KV/

Would that work? Or should I go with the 1210Kv ?

[Dracx]

Actually, the better electronics will give you what you want. A good gyro and tail servo will give you a locked-in tail. Fast cyclic servos will let you do wicked-fast pull-outs if things start to go wrong and a powerful motor will save you when recovering. The twitchiness you refer to can be programmed out with the use of Expo and a flybar will help counteract breezes.

I have a similar heli history, though I started with planes and heavy acrobatic flying. So, when I got into helis, I tried to fly it like my planes, with little interest in 3D other than loops and rolls. I started with the CX2. After a couple of weeks I wanted to fly outdoors so I moved to the 120SR. After two more weeks, dissatisfied with the 120SR's performance and wanting more power, I moved to the SR. That lasted a couple months while I adapted to a quicker machine. But, again, I was disappointed with the lack of power and horribly instable inverted flight. I discovered a new hobby shop in my area where the owner told me about how great the Gaui 425 is and how much cheaper it is (initial cost and crash cost) than the Trex 500. My first flight with the Gaui 425 was a revelation. It was a welcoming to a whole new world of heli flight. It does everything the other helis could never do, and so much more. This heli made me a better pilot. And, I still fly it much like an acrobatic plane, in addition to mild 3D.

Here's my baby: https://www.helifreak.com/showpost.p...9&postcount=42

[Indychus]

Thanks! Exactly what I wanted to hear.

What kind of head speed do you get with that 1600Kv motor? Are you running stock gearing or have you had to change the ratios?

[Dracx]

Here's my setup: https://www.helifreak.com/showpost.p...5&postcount=12

I've got the speed control governor set to 2600 rpm. You could go 2400 - 2500 if you wanted to mellow it out a bit. But, that makes it more sluggish, moreso than using Expo.

The head speed is scary compared to all the micro helis. But, once you get over that fear, it flys like a dream. No more fighting the machine for control.

[Jack2010]

Originally Posted by Indychus

I'm considering this motor:
http://www.scorpionsystem.com/catalo...0/HK30-1400KV/
Would that work? Or should I go with the 1210Kv ?

1400kV is considered as quite powerful, while 1210kV should give you a bit longer flying times but less juice. On top of it 1400kV will be more difficult to gear with 500 or 550mm blades (not to mentioned 1600kV), while 1210kV (or even 1000kV) will be more flexible in that manner.

I have to admit I was investigating HK series for quite a while trying to find the best call... as I could not decided between 1210 and 1000kV end up buying Z20 980kv that is admired for so many for sport flying (not 3D) and been gentle for the lipo's in the same time

IMHO if you are looking for something powerful you could go for HK3026 1400kv or Z30 1100KV. If something less aggressive is on your mind than Z20-980KV or HK3026 1210/1000kv is the choice. 1600kV was not on my list as it is too much for 500-550mm blades but for 425mm should be just fine.

I truly never came to any final conclusion which one would be better for our Gaui's - 1210kv or 1000kv...that was so annoying at a time...

[Dracx]

Just for clarification, since the author here said he was new, the stock plastic kit uses 425mm - 430mm blades. So, the 1400kV - 1600kV motor will give you the power-punch you are looking for. 1210kV would have to be geared very high for 2400 - 2600 head speed on a 425, and would probably be outside its powerband, losing power in hard maneuvers.

The 980kV - 1210kV would be better suited if you were upgrading your kit to be in the 550-class (longer tail boom, larger blades, different gears).

[Jerrymac]

I use the Tonic-x Z20-1470kv motor in my 425 with 15-50-20-61 gearing, whichs gives a calculated head speed of about 2900 to 3000. It flys scary fast and has tons of power, but is a little tough on batteries with that head speed. It is a great motor for the 425, and runs nice and cool. You could gear it down a little for a lower head speed and probably get longer flight times. You can find it at HeliDirect.

[atkinson]

For my 2cents... I went to the 425 after flying a blade 400 for a year. Once I flew the 425 it seemed to open the envelope of confidence with flying. Found I had too weak of servos-the hard way (stripped gears=crash). After rebuilding (only about $50 including blades) I wanted another one. I ordered another $70 kit and the parts to stretch it to a 550. What a difference! I built them with identical electronics except for the motors and gearing. The 425 flies just like a simulator, the 550 is a "graceful floater". I'm far from 3d tricks but can flip and roll while flying. The 425 basically can roll on it's axis with no bobbling or non wanted movements. The 550 is SLOW and moves around with flips and rolls but can haul balls going forward with no wandering. I recently gave the 550 to my neighbor cause it seems like a stable platform to learn how to hover compared to his novus cp. So I picked up another $75 kit and stretched it to a 500. The neighbor bought turnigy esc and motor, 401b gyro, and an align tail servo for the 550. he already had a dx7 with servos. I put the existing electronics back into the 500 with green kbdd paddles. This thing is crazy fast now. So far I have been able to fly with no expo or dual rates. Now it's time to see what that can do to tame this thing a little. I wouldn't say it's difficult to fly, it just is much faster with forward flight and cyclic inputs

[Indychus]

Ok, so I think I'm going to go with that 1400kv scorpion. I don't plan to stretch this one, so I think I can get away with that. Going to order the motor this friday unless someone can give me a good reason not to...

What kind of flight times should I expect with a typical build based on a 1400kv motor? 5-6 mins? Haven't looked into batteries much, but want to keep the heli as light as possible, so nothing crazy for the lipos.

I have a protos 500 still in the box, so the gaui will be a training mule and may eventually end up in some kind of scale fuselage once the protos is done. The gaui will stay as stock as possible (only upgrading what breaks), and the protos will catch all of the upgrades, and will probably end up stretched. That's the plan anyways, with all the positive hype around the gaui I may keep upgrading it and sell the protos haha.

Gyro recommendations? I have no idea where to start looking for gyros. I'd like to spend no more than $100-125 or so. Is it possible to get a decent gyro in that price range?

[Jack2010]

Originally Posted by Indychus

Gyro recommendations? I have no idea where to start looking for gyros. I'd like to spend no more than $100-125 or so. Is it possible to get a decent gyro in that price range?

Spartan DS760 for 120$ shipped http://www.heli-rnd.com/Spartan.html or Quark for the same price + shipping here http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...dProduct=10484 or Futaba GY520 in the same shop for 130$ + shipping http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...idProduct=9746

[ukgroucho]

Keep the headspeed down - sat 2500 - 2600 and you should get 5 - 6 min + off a 3000MaH pack even in FFF with aerobatics. Not sure what you can fit on th eplastic frame... you may need to go with 2x3S in series.

[Indychus]

Thanks again, I think I have it all figured out now. Once a few parts show up I'll start a build thread. I'm sure it will be full of questions.

[Jack2010]

Out of curiosity - so what will be your final setup in details?

[Indychus]

I'm planning on running 430mm blades, the scorpion 3026-1400kv (maybe the 1600kv), Spartan Quark, (3) Savox SC-0254MG (cyclic), Align DS650 (tail), Turnigy K-Force 100A ESC.

Haven't decided on the BEC or batteries yet, and just going to run the cheapest CF blades I can find until I learn to fly it. Still need to figure out my gearing as well, haven't had time to sit down and do the calculations. I don't trust the online calculators I've found, so I'm going to do it myself. I have a tach I can measure it with once it's done to be sure as well. Aiming for a headspeed around 2650 or so.

[ukgroucho]

CF blades.. probably HobbyKing is the place to go but order now as they will take a while...

http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...dProduct=10696 No idea how good these are, apparently (from the reviews) you need to balance them.. but at the low price for a site member it's worth trying a pair.

These http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...idProduct=6592 are good. I use the 500mm version on my 550 and these 425s on my flybarless Hurri 425.

Maybe get a set of each then you can try the cheapies and have the known quantity as a fall back.

[Jack2010]

You could consider Gaui woodies: http://www.flying-hobby.com/shop/mai...5l-p-5874.html

Not expensive + when you hit they brake easily and minimize the risk something else (head wise) will get smashed.

As per HS calc I use the attached one (got it from another freak from this forum ):




BTW: Align DS650 = Savox SH-1290MG http://www.flying-hobby.com/shop/sav...vo-p-5272.html

[Bearclaw]

The 2200 mAh Turnigy's are a perfect fit with the jug canopy. Be careful using cheap carbon fiber blades, if they are too heavy you will have heat problems. Even with balanced 3D pro blades, my heli had vibes and motor and battery heat problems. Switched to align and didn't have any problems. I have also used Mavrick G5 blades that worked very well, the thicker chord gives it more collective but less cyclic. Dont cheap out on blades when you are spinning 2600 and above.

[Indychus]

I didn't think I could use wooden blades with the headspeed I want to run. If I can, that's great, it will save me some money and hopefully cut down on head damage if (when) I have a blade strike.

Also, regarding headspeed, is it possible (or practical) to gear it for 2600 or so, but use the governer on my esc to limit it to 2200-2300 for hover practice and longer flights, then bump it back up to ~2600 when I'm more confident? From the videos I've seen, I know I need a pretty high headspeed to get the performance I want, but not sure how that affects my maiden flight and hover training.

I'm just worried I'm building a flying man-eating blender haha. I want it as tame as possible starting out, but have the power punch I want later- without changing many components if possible.