Blade 400 Motor

[AussieJake]

So my motor has kicked the bucket. Well, sort of. It's fine, all except for wear on the soft metal shaft from the bearing closest to the pinion.
See pic below.
Due to this it is no longer fixed in a straight position and can wobble side to side. It's making all sorts of bad noises becasue of this and needs replacing.
Only thing is Horizon/E-Flite/Blade don't sell replacement shafts.
On the horizon page for the EFLM1350H there are multiple reviews from customers with the same issue. As well as more spread throughout the internet.

So I need a new motor and do not wish to go with the stock option again due to the simple fact they are unserviceable.

dieselracer from this thread seems to swear by them. And if I could service it I might be of the same opinion. But I've heard of people up to their third or forth EFLM1350H motor and this tells me look else where.

So I need sugestions.

I was looking at the Scorpion HK-22 series....
It's hard to get the full spec on the stock EFLM1350H 420 motor apart from kv rating (3800).
It measures roughly
27.9mm outer diameter
13.0mm stator height
44.0mm total height including shaft

In regards to the scorpion HK-22 series, the motors with a similar Kv rating to the stock motor are:
HK-2206-3900KV / 3900kv / Max Continuous Current 14 Amps / 150w
HKII-2208-24 / 3590kv / Max Continuous Current 21 Amps / 220w
HKII-2213-14 / 3585kv / Max Continuous Current 32 Amps / 330w
HKII-2221-8 / 3595kv / Max Continuous Current 45 Amps / 475w
HKII-2221-6 / 4400kv / Max Continuous Current 52 Amps / 525w

although some of these motors would require an ESC upgrade too.
And I guess the higher the peak wattage the shorter the flight time. But less responsive maybe?

Has anyone installed any of these on their B400?
Or does anyone else have other suggestions apart from the stock option?

Pic of the worn shaft:

[AussieJake]

Ok I found this "Scorpion Helicopter Motor Application Guide" PDF from Scorpion themselves.

They mention Blade 400 twice and recomend (based on closest kv rating to stock motor):
HKII-2213-14 / 3585kv / Max Continuous Current 32 Amps / 330w
HKII-2216-12 / 3350kv / Max Continuous Current 35 Amps / 375w

Obviously the kv rating isn't up around the 3800 mark as per the stock motor, but would using the HKII-2216-12 / 3350kv AND increasing the pinion from a 10T to an 11T or 12T be ok?

I've tried to use Headspeed calculators and I think a 12T with the HKII-2216-12/3350kv motor acheive around a 100rpm faaster headspeed. Which isn't bad I think. ?????
On a side note, when using headspeed calculators such as: http://dhrc.rchomepage.com/calc.htm OR http://heli.dacsa.net/calcv3/Default.aspx, what do you use for effiency considering I can't find that info anywhere.

And also would need a beefier ESC i guess (stock is only 25A).

All because E-Flite can't sell the stock motor shafts.. GRRRRR!

[terryv83]

This is a eflite motor thing, it seems to happen to all sizes of them, if you check in the 450 3d and X forums there is plenty of people with different motors and all the info to go with the change overs. Also I think after running the Lynx Eox in my 300X, it would suit the 400 also paired to either the castle Talon 35 or edge 50. I don't know much about the Scorpion motors other than they a pretty good. I hope you find what you're looking for.

[AussieJake]

Originally Posted by terryv83

This is a eflite motor thing, it seems to happen to all sizes of them, if you check in the 450 3d and X forums there is plenty of people with different motors and all the info to go with the change overs. Also I think after running the Lynx Eox in my 300X, it would suit the 400 also paired to either the castle Talon 35 or edge 50. I don't know much about the Scorpion motors other than they a pretty good. I hope you find what you're looking for.

Oh OK no probs. I'll browse those forums and see what others recommend.

You'd think eflite would just start selling the bare shaft after so many complaints. Or offer a better shaft (material wise) when the stock one wears out.
People have been choosing other brand alternatives for this one reason. Which is taking profit away from eflite. Bad business decision.. I would've just bought another shaft and be done with it. I also possibly would've purchased their motors in future if and only if I could services them. But never again!

[Harbormaster]

Be careful about using a hotter motor with the stock ESC...

[Bee_random]

Hi Jake,
A good combination is the Scorpion 2221-8 and Edge50lite (previously Ice50litre). I have flown this combo for years without a problem. Masses of power and good quality all round. Be aware that you will probably need to put a spacer in between the motor and mount, in order to lift the working portion of the pinion to align it with the main gear. I used a couple of thick nylon washers from a local hardware shop.

IMHO, don't be tempted by the extra power of the 2221-6, as this is just too much for this heli. It'll cause more trouble than help.
Cheers, B

[tomatwalden]

50 litres! ? Wow, that's a big ESC ! ;-)


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Bee_random]

It is the awesome power of the Blade 400 Tom lol

[AussieJake]

Originally Posted by Bee_random

Hi Jake,
A good combination is the Scorpion 2221-8 and Edge50lite (previously Ice50litre). I have flown this combo for years without a problem. Masses of power and good quality all round. Be aware that you will probably need to put a spacer in between the motor and mount, in order to lift the working portion of the pinion to align it with the main gear. I used a couple of thick nylon washers from a local hardware shop.

IMHO, don't be tempted by the extra power of the 2221-6, as this is just too much for this heli. It'll cause more trouble than help.
Cheers, B

B, I think I'm going to go with the 2221-8 as soon as hobby king have it in stock. Unless you have another suggestion for getting one to australia. Know of any other good online stores?

It came down to the 2221-8 or the 2216-3350kv with a bigger pinion to get the rpm back up there.

My question is, what size pinion you running with your 2221-8?

[Bee_random]

I sold my motor on a couple of weeks ago. I'll ask the guy who bought it. I think it was probably 11t. Mr.Mel's head speed calculator app is pretty good as well.

This link may be of interest.
https://www.helifreak.com/showthread.php?t=319557

Thinking about it though, you may want to seriously consider going 6s with the motor upgrade. The batteries are more or less the same size these days and you'll get longer flight times with a cooler pack. I did this with my mini-Protos and love it. Awesome heli.

[everydayflyer]

If you remove the bearing from a new eFlite motor, clean them and the motor's area where they mount, reinstall the bearings using Loctite ( I use 609) ,let loctite set 12 hours, oil bearing and reinstall in heli. Now oil the motor every 15 to 20 flights and it should last hundreds of flights.

Main problem is that Blades are sold as BNF when in fact they are kits which need to be disasembled and reasembled using the proper Loctites,oils and greases. I have yet to see a blade with main feathing shaft or tail grip shaft with Loctite on it , lubed thrust bearing,oilded bearing anywhere.

[everydayflyer]

Has anyone installed any of these on their B400?
Or does anyone else have other suggestions apart from the stock option?

Scorpion 2221-8 with an 11T is good for Sports and light 3D flying. A 13T will get you around 3,600 RPM head speed if you are so inclinded. IO do have two Scorpion 3321-8 and I have flown with them but mostly stick with the reworked Blade ( e Flite ones ) both the 420s and the 440s.

Hobby King Turnigy SK3 T450 KV 3600 is extrely close to a Scorpion 2221-8 but only cost $20 rather than $80.

[everydayflyer]

Well a few days ago my fve year old eFlite 440 motor developed the worn shaft issue and since Ihad a Scorpion 2221-8 just setting in my spares bx Iput a 12T pinion on it and installed it in my Blade 400 which I converted to FBL using a Tarot head and ZYX-S FLB unit a couple of years ago.

Throttle / HS
Scopion 2221-8 3595 Kv Turnegy AE-45A ESC

50% 3,000 HS
60% 3250
70-100% 3450


eFlite 440 4200Kv with a 10T stock eFlite 35A ESC . As new 450X stock except for servos.

75% 3100
100% 3240


All HS static with pitch at zero.

[jaybflyer]

Originally Posted by everydayflyer

If you remove the bearing from a new eFlite motor, clean them and the motor's area where they mount, reinstall the bearings using Loctite ( I use 609) ,let loctite set 12 hours, oil bearing and reinstall in heli. Now oil the motor every 15 to 20 flights and it should last hundreds of flights.

Main problem is that Blades are sold as BNF when in fact they are kits which need to be disasembled and reasembled using the proper Loctites,oils and greases. I have yet to see a blade with main feathing shaft or tail grip shaft with Loctite on it , lubed thrust bearing,oilded bearing anywhere.

EDF,
Are you saying that that you locktite the bearing ID to the shaft?

[wulfrun]

As an aside, the Esky Belt CP V1 & V2 motors are identical in spec and fitting to the Blade 400's. The Esky motor doesn't suffer the same problems as the Blade's but obviously it's not an upgrade otherwise.