FlyMentor Setup By Ivor Hill PLEASE READ FIRST!!

[Ivor Hill]

Originally Posted by sweets

on my next flymentor install, its going on a kds450qs,which has a kds 820 gyro . is this gyro better than the flymentor gyro or is the flymentor gyro better . thanks for any help

Not familiar with that gyro but yes it should be a lot better.

[sweets]

thanks for your answer , it worked very well,and I have never had any problems with it,that and the fact that I know how to work on it as this was my first cp, spent many hours going through threads,utube tutorials until I worked out what things on the tx/ gyro did

[HK500Pilot]

Hello, great thread here, I'm glad I was able to find it. I was having some trouble getting some good info on setting up my Flymentor on a recently purchased used Trex 500. It came with it and was curious to try it out.

It appears I have everything set up and functioning as it should on the bench. However, I have a question regarding the flight modes and lights associated with designating what flight mode I'm in.

When my gyro switch is in position 1 I get the flashing green light, position 2 a red solid indicating off, position 3 red and green solid. The gyro functions on my Aux 2 switch. I'm using a Spektrum DX8 transmitter and AR8000 receiver, utilizing the KDS gyro.

Is this correct? According to the videos I've watched they say the blinking green will go solid after lift off and I'm off the ground. I would much rather have the 3 position switch work as off in position 1 and the other flight modes in position 2 and 3.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

[Ivor Hill]

Originally Posted by HK500Pilot

Hello, great thread here, I'm glad I was able to find it. I was having some trouble getting some good info on setting up my Flymentor on a recently purchased used Trex 500. It came with it and was curious to try it out.

It appears I have everything set up and functioning as it should on the bench. However, I have a question regarding the flight modes and lights associated with designating what flight mode I'm in.

When my gyro switch is in position 1 I get the flashing green light, position 2 a red solid indicating off, position 3 red and green solid. The gyro functions on my Aux 2 switch. I'm using a Spektrum DX8 transmitter and AR8000 receiver, utilizing the KDS gyro.

Is this correct? According to the videos I've watched they say the blinking green will go solid after lift off and I'm off the ground. I would much rather have the 3 position switch work as off in position 1 and the other flight modes in position 2 and 3.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Yes it is correct. Not familiar with your radio but normally you cannot change the off position because centre is the zero value of the switch. The other 2 positions are + value ( position mode ) and - value ( balance mode ) you may be able to swop those around if you wish by reversing that channel on your radio.
You must also set values for position and balance modes. To do this go to the end points/ travel adjust on the channel you have the 3 position set to and adjust the values, start with 65 for position mode and 85 for balance mode. The exact values needed will have to be set when test hovering/flying.
I always advise disconnecting the blue wire so that non of the above works and you are using the values set in the software until you are use to it.

[HK500Pilot]

Thank you for the reply, much appreciated.

However, now I'm slightly confused. What exactly is this end point adjustment actually adjusting if I'm already getting the flymentor to go into the specific modes indicated by the colors shown on the flight controller unit?

Thanks again for your help.

[HK500Pilot]

Originally Posted by HK500Pilot

Thank you for the reply, much appreciated.

However, now I'm slightly confused. What exactly is this end point adjustment actually adjusting if I'm already getting the flymentor to go into the specific modes indicated by the colors shown on the flight controller unit?

Thanks again for your help.

I was able to get a test flight in today and found quite a bit of tail wag which I corrected within the transmitter. The tail is quite surprisingly rock solid in heading hold, I'm quite pleased. I'm getting some drift but can correct it, holding it in one spot is a little difficult, quite honestly the heli is more stable with my fingers off the sticks. Do you think adding expo will help here or should I be looking at changing the gain on the positioning lens?

Thanks once again for the help.

[Ivor Hill]

Originally Posted by HK500Pilot

I was able to get a test flight in today and found quite a bit of tail wag which I corrected within the transmitter. The tail is quite surprisingly rock solid in heading hold, I'm quite pleased. I'm getting some drift but can correct it, holding it in one spot is a little difficult, quite honestly the heli is more stable with my fingers off the sticks. Do you think adding expo will help here or should I be looking at changing the gain on the positioning lens?

Thanks once again for the help.

End points is the same as gain. As well as selecting the mode you must set the maximum useable gain. The higher the gain the more control Flymentor will have, if the gain is to high the heli will rock side to side and front to back caused by over compensating.
If the heli is always drifting in the same direction then you need to adjust the swash to correct it. Try with radio trims first but if you have to use more than 3 or 4 clicks then you should connect the programmer and adjust the swash using the servo neutrals, it is normal to have to do this 2 or 3 times to get it correct. If the drifting is random then the gain is not high enough.
The camera need to see differences in the ground surface, so concrete no good
grass good.
Note the camera will only work up to about 10 feet, if it is out of range FM will change to balance mode until the ground is again in range.

[HK500Pilot]

Thank you for the reply, its greatly appreciated.

I'm not certain I'm having issues related to the gains with the drifting. However, the drifting seems not to be in any one specific direction at this point. From what I can gather for example the heli starts to drift left and I had right and its too much so I compensate again with left which again it over compensates and until I really fine tune my inputs I can't get the heli to hover in one specific location, its the same front to rear. This is why I was thinking some EXPO would help here. What are your thoughts?

At this point I'm quite imressed with the flymentor, its not completely horrible to fly and this is my initial set up right off the bench.

Thank you for taking time to help me out with setting this up.

[Ivor Hill]

Originally Posted by HK500Pilot

Thank you for the reply, its greatly appreciated.

I'm not certain I'm having issues related to the gains with the drifting. However, the drifting seems not to be in any one specific direction at this point. From what I can gather for example the heli starts to drift left and I had right and its too much so I compensate again with left which again it over compensates and until I really fine tune my inputs I can't get the heli to hover in one specific location, its the same front to rear. This is why I was thinking some EXPO would help here. What are your thoughts?

At this point I'm quite imressed with the flymentor, its not completely horrible to fly and this is my initial set up right off the bench.

Thank you for taking time to help me out with setting this up.

Expo will help with stick control and I do use it but if Flymentor is set up properly the heli will hover on the spot without stick input and that is what you should be aiming for. If you are in position mode hovering over grass and the drifting is random then the likely reason is that the gain is not high enough. Hover the heli about 18 inches above the grass and keep increasing the gain until the heli starts to dance then back off a little.
When you have the gain set as high as possible then drifting should always be in the same direction you should then adjust the swash to correct it. It is very unlikely that you have set the swash correctly on the bench it has to be done during test hovers.
Be carful when adjusting expo, if you go the wrong way then it will make the situation worst.

[HK500Pilot]

Originally Posted by Ivor Hill

Expo will help with stick control and I do use it but if Flymentor is set up properly the heli will hover on the spot without stick input and that is what you should be aiming for. If you are in position mode hovering over grass and the drifting is random then the likely reason is that the gain is not high enough. Hover the heli about 18 inches above the grass and keep increasing the gain until the heli starts to dance then back off a little.
When you have the gain set as high as possible then drifting should always be in the same direction you should then adjust the swash to correct it. It is very unlikely that you have set the swash correctly on the bench it has to be done during test hovers.
Be carful when adjusting expo, if you go the wrong way then it will make the situation worst.

Thank you very much for your help here, I'm quite impressed so far with the performance of the flymentor. The Expo has definately helped, I'm slowly getting the heli locked in to one spot and a very stable hover. Its definately a time consuming process and of course best done when the wind is not a factor, that seems to be the toughest part so far.

I'm thinking possibly another adjustment of the swash will have me where I need to be. I'm very impressed with the stability of the tail using the KDS gyro. Some seemed to have issues with it but my experience has been very positive.

Lastly, is this KDS Flymentor system only best suited for 450 - 500 sized heli's? Has anyone used one successfully on a 550 or larger bird?

Thanks again for your input.

[Ivor Hill]

Originally Posted by HK500Pilot

Thank you very much for your help here, I'm quite impressed so far with the performance of the flymentor. The Expo has definately helped, I'm slowly getting the heli locked in to one spot and a very stable hover. Its definately a time consuming process and of course best done when the wind is not a factor, that seems to be the toughest part so far.

I'm thinking possibly another adjustment of the swash will have me where I need to be. I'm very impressed with the stability of the tail using the KDS gyro. Some seemed to have issues with it but my experience has been very positive.

Lastly, is this KDS Flymentor system only best suited for 450 - 500 sized heli's? Has anyone used one successfully on a 550 or larger bird?

Thanks again for your input.

Yes it's time consuming the first time but can be set up very quickly when you get use to it. Use the transmitter trims at first, if for example you need +12 on aileron and -9 on elevator connect the programmer and add 12 to the aileron neutral setting and -9 on the elevator neutral. Zero the trims on the transmitter and try again. The trim values on the transmitter are almost the same as in the programme but yes you need a calm day. Watch the swash as you do it so you are sure you are moving it the right way. Yes it can be used on bigger heli's, Pril250 uses it on a 600. It gets more difficult on direct drive tails due to the vibration but can be done.

[HK500Pilot]

Originally Posted by Ivor Hill

Yes it's time consuming the first time but can be set up very quickly when you get use to it. Use the transmitter trims at first, if for example you need +12 on aileron and -9 on elevator connect the programmer and add 12 to the aileron neutral setting and -9 on the elevator neutral. Zero the trims on the transmitter and try again. The trim values on the transmitter are almost the same as in the programme but yes you need a calm day. Watch the swash as you do it so you are sure you are moving it the right way. Yes it can be used on bigger heli's, Pril250 uses it on a 600. It gets more difficult on direct drive tails due to the vibration but can be done.

I just swapped out the tail servo that came with this heli that was a full size JR digital for an Align DS520. Something odd is now I can't seem to adjust the end points for the travel. Where do I do this? Nothing seems to change it. I did this successfully with my initial set up but now can't seem to get to the right point within the flymentor to do so. Left rudder moves the slider nicely to the end of mechanical travel however I have far too much right rudder.

How do I adjust the travel end point? I apologize as it seems I'm taking a step backwards learning the functions and set up.

Thanks for the help!

[Ivor Hill]

Originally Posted by HK500Pilot

I just swapped out the tail servo that came with this heli that was a full size JR digital for an Align DS520. Something odd is now I can't seem to adjust the end points for the travel. Where do I do this? Nothing seems to change it. I did this successfully with my initial set up but now can't seem to get to the right point within the flymentor to do so. Left rudder moves the slider nicely to the end of mechanical travel however I have far too much right rudder.

How do I adjust the travel end point? I apologize as it seems I'm taking a step backwards learning the functions and set up.

Thanks for the help!

Servo centre including the tail the is set is set under the servo settings tab.
Tail servo travel is set under the gyro tab, but you cannot set left and right end points you can only set equal travel in both directions. With the servo at centre ( normal mode not heading hold ) the tail slider should be set so the tail holds in a hover without stick input, it will be offset towards the boom. This will mean that full travel can be set towards the boom but not away from the boom. This is not a problem you do not need travel in that direction because the main rotor will be doing the work.
When you have set this, switch to heading hold and set the best working gain. In heading hold the servo will drift to one end this is normal and not a problem, it will correct when you lift off. In normal mode the servo will move to centre, that is why it must be set up in normal mode.
Note Flymentor gyros are very old technology, modern gyros centre in both heading hold and normal modes and are much easier to set up. Have a look at the $10 Assan GA250 it is a very small modern gyro and much easier to set up that the Flymentor gyro. It would be set up and controlled by the radio in the normal way and have no connection with Flymentor.

[HK500Pilot]

Thanks for clarifying, much appreciated.

I just put 4 flights on the heli in calm weather she's flying quite well. Tail is remarkably solid. I'm noticing that above 6 feet or so the heli is a little twitchy, I guess that's the best way to describe it. Is this an issue with the CCD gain or just how they fly?

I almost hate to adjust anything as I'm quite pleased overall with how this 500 is flying.

Thanks again for all your help!

[Ivor Hill]

Originally Posted by HK500Pilot

Thanks for clarifying, much appreciated.

I just put 4 flights on the heli in calm weather she's flying quite well. Tail is remarkably solid. I'm noticing that above 6 feet or so the heli is a little twitchy, I guess that's the best way to describe it. Is this an issue with the CCD gain or just how they fly?

I almost hate to adjust anything as I'm quite pleased overall with how this 500 is flying.

Thanks again for all your help!

Sounds like at that height you are going out of CCD range and Flymentor is switching to balance mode. In balance mode the heli will level if you release the stick but you have to control it's direction and drifting.. If you are finding it twitchy then try some more expo.
Keep an eye on it if it constantly drifts in the same direction the swash may need a small adjustment.

[HK500Pilot]

Maybe I should clarify "twitchy". Its not overly reactive to stick input at all, actually when I activate stick control the heli smooths out. Its not darty or overly sensitive. Possibly its best to describe it as when the gain is too high on a gyro and you get a bouncy tail, similiar to tail wag except it appears to be on the cyclic controls. The "twitch" is potentially side to side and front to rear. Like the flymentor is constantly adjusting itself to maintain level hover. That's why I was wondering if possibly that's just how these things fly on the flymentor.

I just want to make sure I'm explaining myself correctly and we are talking about the same thing. I'm planning some flights this afternoon at a family BBQ. Maybe I can get someone to video the heli in hover and upload it here.

Thanks!

[Ivor Hill]

Originally Posted by HK500Pilot

Maybe I should clarify "twitchy". Its not overly reactive to stick input at all, actually when I activate stick control the heli smooths out. Its not darty or overly sensitive. Possibly its best to describe it as when the gain is too high on a gyro and you get a bouncy tail, similiar to tail wag except it appears to be on the cyclic controls. The "twitch" is potentially side to side and front to rear. Like the flymentor is constantly adjusting itself to maintain level hover. That's why I was wondering if possibly that's just how these things fly on the flymentor.

I just want to make sure I'm explaining myself correctly and we are talking about the same thing. I'm planning some flights this afternoon at a family BBQ. Maybe I can get someone to video the heli in hover and upload it here.

Thanks!

The twitching you describe usually happens in position mode when the gain is set to high. It is caused by the servos over compensating. Normally the closer to the ground you are the worse it is, reducing the gain a little fixes it. A little twitching when very close to the ground in position mode is ok, it usually stops twitching when it reaches a foot or so off the ground.
But I have never seen the situation where the heli is fine when close to the ground ( in position mode ) but starts twitching above 6 feet. If you are sure that this is happening and are using your radio to control the gain ( blue wire connected) then try reducing the balance ( not position ) gain a little.

[HK500Pilot]

I will try that. I had a friend video the heli in hover but it was shot a little far away and it was difficult to pick up the slight shake that I'm describing.

[boowho]

Ivor (or any else), what do you think of the DJI NAZA H as combo flybarless controller/flight stabilization device??

It's pretty pricey, but even has a GPS module available for holding a position.

After several months of playing with a FM, I'm still not happy with it's performance. I have never gotten position-hold mode to work regardless of the type of surface texture.

Boowho??

[HK500Pilot]

I'm not familiar with the NAZA H so I really can't comment. I do have the NAZA Lite controller on my multirotors and it's very impressive for an entry level system.

I'm very satisfied with my experience with the Flymentor system. Once you can learn how it operates and learn to trust it I feel it could be very helpful to someone learning to fly helicopters and those who may want to use it on a scale project and take some of the drama out of flying an Rc helicopter.