Protos 500 HS

[Alex M K]

Hi guys,

what are you guys using for HS on the Protos 500?

I ran a few simulations on Mr. Mels and with what MSH provides in the specs page I got this:

6S-15T - 2800rpm @90%
6S-16T- 3000rpm @90%
6S-17T- 3200rpm@90%
6S-18T - 3380rpm@90% (motor probably will be good to boil eggs)
6S-19T - 3560rpm@90% (blade holders probably desintegrate)
6S-20T - 3750rpm@90% (probably as fun to watch as seeing Heidi Klum undress)

(above assuming that YGE60that comes with the kit, which I have absolutely no intention in using)


Reason I ask, is I am giving it some thought, and probably am going to try one out.


I am planning running it on a Kobi 90 ESC, with 6S 3300mah batteries.

What worries me is that motor that comes with it. I read sometime ago it was made by Scorpion, which if it is, it's ok with me, but it may run a bit hot, as I try to get higher head speeds.

So, and assuming no one makes metal blade holders for this helicopter, what are the HS you guys using?

I am also thinking of using BK 5001's for cyclic and a BK 7005 for the tail.

Also ditching the Brain and use a VX1n for FBL

What are you guys running on this heli?

Thanks in advance

Kind regards

Alex

[kavic5150]

There are some metal main blade grips floating around. But I think they are discontinued now. I think either FlyingHobby or Infinity-Hobby had them.

As for head speed, I'm at the other end of the spectrum. Guessing I'm around 1900rpm or so.

[flint723]

When I had one I ran 2650. I thought it had a lot of power at that rpm, but that was a long time ago.

But I don't really know of anyone who felt they needed to pinion up from the stock 15t pinion (2800 governed). In general those other pinions were just for running lower cell counts.

[babyuh1]

Six cell, 14 tooth pinion, 2650 rpm, plenty of power for light 3d.

[DoubleCH]

Agree with the last 2 posts. 250 with 425-435 blades is sweet spot for most 3D stuff. Stock motor can hold up to about 2700-2800 under load with 15T or about 2650 with 14T. Set any higher HS with any pinion the stock motor won't have enough power to maintain those HS under load. You can achieve 2650 HS with either 14 or 15T. If you want to change out 15T to 14T you'll need to change out the 6mm shaft to 4mm shaft or shaft adapter. And if flying 3D you'll need 3rd motor shaft support or the skinnier 4mm shaft/adapter will bend. If you fly 475-480mm blades 13T is like 14T with 425 blades and 2400 is like 2650 with 425 blades. I fly hard-ish 3D with 475 blades 13T and 2300 - 2400 HS. Powerful enough I don't need any higher HS.

[Alex M K]

thank you for you time and responses. Much appreciated

Kind regards

Alex

[Alex M K]

Originally Posted by DoubleCH

And if flying 3D you'll need 3rd motor shaft support or the skinnier 4mm shaft/adapter will bend.

I assume, and please correct me if I am wrong, the 3rd shaft support is only needed if using the non stock 15T pinion, because the shafts have a smaller diam., right? With stock motor the shaft is 6mm correct?

Kind regards

Alex

[babyuh1]

Normally you don't need the shaft support unless you stretch your Protos. It isn't even made to fit the plastic frame but if you have the carbon frame it couldn't hurt to install it.
Other than crashes I'm not hard on my Helis so I've had no problem running the shaft adapter and fourteen tooth pinion on my standard length P500 for years.

[Alex M K]

Originally Posted by babyuh1

Normally you don't need the shaft support unless you stretch your Protos. It isn't even made to fit the plastic frame but if you have the carbon frame it couldn't hurt to install it.
Other than crashes I'm not hard on my Helis so I've had no problem running the shaft adapter and fourteen tooth pinion on my standard length P500 for years.

Yes, I will be building the one with the carbon frames. I admit I do abuse them a bit. I doubt the plastic stuff will go very far. Fly around 3 to 6 packs a day. This is where this heli worries me some.

This is going to be a beater/practice for a while, (if I like it at least for 6 months - if I don't, till I get it sold here on HF).

Truth be told, I've know about Protos for a long while, but they never attracted my attention, nor did I ever felt compelled to build one.

They've always come across to me as very fragile and one of those helis that breaks a lot and suffers a lot in crashes, so I never really "needed" one. It does look good but being Italian made, I think it suffers from the same disease the Italian cars suffers, looks good, but handles and runs...well...we know.

In any case, I am going to give it a go, if I don't like it, or if it does not perform as I expect, I'll get rid of it, not a big problem.

I've always used heavily modified and souped up Trex 500 frames, (running 90 amp ESC, HV BK servos etc), as beater/practice helicopters, because although not being spectacular flyers, they did hold well in crashes and were pretty sturdy.

Problem is...I got tired of using the same heli, all the time for practice and got rid of all my trex stuff. (I did have a go with an Oxy as beater, but it soon wore out in me as well.. too small and toyish..and too small for what I wanted from it).

Suddenly, I realized how much I enjoyed the 425 blade size helis...they handle almost like the larger 700, and yet, are small enough to travel with and not so costly on crashes, because I do fly a lot, and they don't last more than 10 /20 flights before I need to rebuild them...

That's where the problem started...it's a given that I do not want another Align helicopter, nor do I want chinese or Taiwanese or any asian helicopter for that matter.

There is nothing out there in the same size as the Trex 500 and the Protos 500!!!

There is the Mikado 480, but seems like parts may be a problem, and does not look like a good candidate for being a beater.

There is the SAB's stuff, but they are a bit on the heavy side for my taste (I am building a sab 380 at the same time I'm building the Protos, but only because I could not make up my mind about both, so got both - and if I don't like it, it'll end up for sale on HF as well), and the Protos...

So there...

Story of my idiosyncrasies...I guess

Kind regards

Alex

[cycled]

Are you sure you don't want a Gaui X4?

Not trying to dis the Protos, I think it's great, but as a lighter floaty model. It has a lot of power but the grips flex a bit. I've had two crashes and both broke a lot of head parts. Also I'm not sure 6s 3300 packs will balance easily with the stock tail.

[Alex M K]

Originally Posted by cycled

Are you sure you don't want a Gaui X4?

Yes, absolutely don't want any Asian stuff anymore. Tired of that.

Besides, if I was to get a Gaui, which I personally don't like, I would have kept the Trex. At least I know what it can do, as I used them as beater for years and years. The Gaui is like an Align, noting new there.

Kind regards

Alex

[cycled]

Well in that case, to answer your original question, I believe I am using the 14T pinion, 6s, stock motor, YGE 90. At 85% throttle I get a lot of power. 70% is quieter and still has quite a lot of performance; unfortunately I get a lot of bogging but I guess that's governor settings (I only set this up a couple of days ago).

Sorry to be so subjective but I haven't tached it. IMO 14T is enough for pretty strong performance on 6s with 430mm blades, but I'm using lighter batteries (TP/Nanotech 2600 420-450g).

[DoubleCH]

Originally Posted by Alex M K

I assume, and please correct me if I am wrong, the 3rd shaft support is only needed if using the non stock 15T pinion, because the shafts have a smaller diam., right? With stock motor the shaft is 6mm correct?

Kind regards

Alex

Motor shaft = 5mm
15T and bigger pinion = 6mm bore
14T and smaller pinion = 4mm bore

According to some one may get away not running 3rd motor shaft support for the 4mm bore pinions but from my experience the 4mm shaft and adapter are too soft to handle any meaningful 3D with stretch blades. Also from my experience, the 3rd motor shaft assembly is a PITA to maintain. First the 3 bearings have to be perfectly aligned. That means start from perfectly mounting the motor on the motor mount. I've done all the aligning work meticulously but under meaningful 3D the top bearing still wore out too often (I bought them in bulk).

I'm very happy with my custom-made solid steel 13T pinion with 6mm bore. No need to deal with the problematic 3rd motor shaft bearing. And without the 3rd bearing even with 475 blades I have no problem with stock motor bearings about 2500 flights now. So again, the 3rd motor shaft bearing is not a reinforcement for stretch. It's a reinforcement to the 4mm shaft/adapter.

[babyuh1]

Just FYI,

The plastic P 500 is one of the toughest helis out there. Mine has survived several hard crashes with minimum damage that would have destroyed a Trex, based on how my 450 trex performed.
And speaking of performance, there is no comparing a trex to the Protos.
Like comparing an Italian sports car to a truck.

[Alex M K]

Originally Posted by babyuh1

Just FYI,

The plastic P 500 is one of the toughest helis out there. Mine has survived several hard crashes with minimum damage that would have destroyed a Trex, based on how my 450 trex performed.
And speaking of performance, there is no comparing a trex to the Protos.
Like comparing an Italian sports car to a truck.

Thanks for the post. It's good to hear this. It's these little feeds of info I am looking for.

BTW..I am from Western Europe, and I stay away from Italian cars like they have the plague!!

Please give me another example, that one is foul

Kind regards

[babyuh1]

My P 500 has been dead reliable. I haven't had to work on it since I stopped crashing it! And the biggest thing to me... it doesn't sound like a sick coffee grinder when you fly it!

You will see!

[crickr1]

P500, best all around , Handles whatever you throw at it, Crashes extremely well and cheap. Few parts. Plastic sacrificial where needed.
I run wide range of HS from 1800-3200, No problems with handling the power. I am running an oddball (rare) motor. It,s a Neu-760kv (if i remember correct, def. mid 700 kv range) inrunner on a 20th pin, 6s 2700 TP packs. It's a little insane at times. I crank it up for all out speed passes, or turn it down for light fun. 3.5-5.5 min depending and comes down cool
Will bog at times, not great for hardcore smack but loads of fun.

It will perform Like an Exotic car, but maintain durability and crash like a good ole Pick up!
At the end of the day, very versatile, durable, platform. One of the true "Classics"

[iAdam]

Originally Posted by babyuh1

My P 500 has been dead reliable. I haven't had to work on it since I stopped crashing it! And the biggest thing to me... it doesn't sound like a sick coffee grinder when you fly it!

You will see!

+1. Mine has been very strong and reliable. The plastic framed version is the best. No heli is really made for crashing, but the Protos is very durable, especially if you can at least get the skids down. . Almost scary how maintenance free. It's been 7 great years and counting I've been banging on em. I got one after learning basic forward flight on my old Blade 400 and the Protos has been a great trainer, hovering to big air to 3D. It's just the perfect sizes heli. If I could only have one, the 500 size, power, and value would make it the one to keep.

[jiminator]

The 6s 3300 packs might be a bit big depending on which manufacturer you use. I have one Gensace 6s 3300 that I can make fit but it is REALLY tight. The cg is off with it too. Usually fly speed passes with no canopy when I use this pack. The TP 6s 2700 fit perfectly. Top hs for me is 2700. Plastic frame, still flybar and still on the original belt after 3 years.

[DoubleCH]

Yeah 3300 is big but for that extra capacity you can get away with lower C 3300. I fly Nanotech 25C 3000 and it's only 427g, lighter than say Gens Ace 55C 2600 but last longer (because I don't have to fully charge or fully discharge 80% every time I use). With stretch setup, I can even go bigger (e.g. Wild Scorpion 45C 3500 which weighs a whopping 518g) without upsetting CG or feel weight burden thanks to super light disc-loading with the stretch. Even with 3500mAh, when I really cranked up the HS it'd still do close to 80% discharge in 4 minutes. Now that the pack is more than 2 years and 200 flight old it has lost some capacity but still fly strong just not the "really cranked up" HS.