Ye olde 480XX tail wag

[SurfCity]

This topic’s been done to death, but I still have no resolution. I have a fairly new super combo 480XX and a V-Bar Control radio. In a hover, my tail acts like it’s hunting, bobbing, slowly sloshing around, whether upright or inverted. Wind makes it a bit worse.

Put some muscle into it, however, and it does incredibly precise piro stops in both directions at any speed; no mush, no bounce-back, just perfect, hard, dead stops. It also does high-speed backward flight with no sense of looseness or hunting.

Mechanically, the tail is smooth and loose enough to fall under its own weight. In the radio, I’ve run the common gain and P and I gains up and down the scale with no change except when the gain gets too high, which gives me a buzzy jitter in addition to the wandering around. I’ve even experimented with cyclic gain.

Because it flies so well, I’m hesitant to try a different tail servo, but hey, what do I know? I must be missing something. The heli has never been crashed or even bumped around hard. Can anyone tell me anything new?

Thanks!

[MotorG525]

I have heard that the stock tail servon can cause some problems. Just from reading though no experience with it

[Kap'n Krunch]

Tail wag on any heli can be mechanical gyro or servo
Try going way low on the gain if it's still there it's mechanical

[jmtyndall]

If it's bobbing, like up and down, then it's a head gain issue, not a tail gain issue. A lot of head gain issues will show some odd tail behaviour and send you on a wild goose chase

Barring that, my next step would be to test a new servo

[GregCA]

I notice the exact same tail behavior as the OP: slight hunting in a hover, but great hold and crisp stops in flight. I get elevator nodding in a hover if the head speed is below 2000 rpm; it's mostly gone by 2200. The stock dampeners are pretty stiff for low head speed. I've also noticed that the tail hunts in a hover more if the governor gain is too high. Some day I'll try disabling the governor to see how much effect that has.

[Dsss]

No wag here but I have been using my trusty bls251.

[sseppala]

I've changed out the tail servo and it is better but still not perfect.
Love everything else about it tho, the easiest heli to fly of any I've tried and power to weight is spot on.

[Kap'n Krunch]

I just finished building my 480 but have not done the set it up yet .. out of all the components I spend the most time on making the tail super smooth no sticky spots and zero resistance

I will report back when I get a chance to maiden it

[corrosionate]

Yeah, seems like everyone running the savox servo has the wag. If smoothing everything out and making sure the carbon plates are parallel doesn't work, either try to ignore it and fly, or slap a BLS251 on there and it goes away.

[SurfCity]

Originally Posted by corrosionate

Yeah, seems like everyone running the savox servo has the wag. If smoothing everything out and making sure the carbon plates are parallel doesn't work, either try to ignore it and fly, or slap a BLS251 on there and it goes away.

I hope you're right! Does anyone with a non-Savox servo have wag on their 480?

[corrosionate]

That was my course of action. Made everything silky smooth with sandpaper and still had the wag. Evened up the carbon plates, still wagging. Some fiddling with tail gains, and servo ball distance from center, still wagging. Mount up the bls251.... BAM! Wag gone.

I don't know what would happen if you used the 251 on a tail that hasn't been smoothed out and evened up... So that stuff is probably still a good idea, but I never had to do it on my Logo 600's and they've all been fine with basically the same setup.

[Gtaris]

I have the Logo 480 xxtreme (super combo with Savöx servos) for almost a year now...and also have a slow tail wag when hovering. I found that greasing the tail shaft with Dryfluid Gear helps, but it never goes away entirely. Because it flies perfectly I have learned to ignore it.

My tail is smooth and square (22.3mm), too bad they do not mention it officially...I've spend a lot of time trying to find a solution other than changing the servo or to buy a Spedix tail.

[Kap'n Krunch]

I got my 480 flying great without a wag using a mini servo mks 9780 on 5.6 volts and tail authority is crisp

I did notice the potential for the pitch slider to bind under load while at the same time being super smooth with out a load being applied but have resolved this dilemma for the most part.

[marke]

WOW it came up again-this tail wag issue,, I have written many threads on it . I also worked with Mikado very closely on it--no resolution with Mikado hardware or tech support, but going to the UK quick tail assy cured my wag and I did not buy a new servo, still running the Savox--of course Mikado wont admit it but its most likely in the tail blade grips and bearings--the other solution is to put a more powerful tail servo into it and over power the problem. spent about 6 months trying to solve it--I had to replace parts with another brand..very poor Mikado-I was not happy.. also Mikado would not exchange me a new Mikado tail assy unless I purchased it..all I wanted to do is try a replacement assy..the UK quick assy is very nice and adds very little weight-but just to give you a heads up the grips are aluminum..so they are a bit heavier.. its the least expensive correction to the problem.
best of luck

[Pard]

Originally Posted by marke

WOW it came up again-this tail wag issue,, I have written many threads on it . I also worked with Mikado very closely on it--no resolution with Mikado hardware or tech support, but going to the UK quick tail assy cured my wag and I did not buy a new servo, still running the Savox--of course Mikado wont admit it but its most likely in the tail blade grips and bearings--the other solution is to put a more powerful tail servo into it and over power the problem. spent about 6 months trying to solve it--I had to replace parts with another brand..very poor Mikado-I was not happy.. also Mikado would not exchange me a new Mikado tail assy unless I purchased it..all I wanted to do is try a replacement assy..the UK quick assy is very nice and adds very little weight-but just to give you a heads up the grips are aluminum..so they are a bit heavier.. its the least expensive correction to the problem.
best of luck

This fits the logo 400/480? http://www.fast-lad.co.uk/store/quic...1b-p-6348.html

I had the wag on my 400SE and it was fixed by sanding the blade grip balls until they moved more freely in the assembly. Wag gone.

[Freeskiken]

Originally Posted by marke

WOW it came up again-this tail wag issue,, I have written many threads on it . I also worked with Mikado very closely on it--no resolution with Mikado hardware or tech support, but going to the UK quick tail assy cured my wag and I did not buy a new servo, still running the Savox--of course Mikado wont admit it but its most likely in the tail blade grips and bearings--the other solution is to put a more powerful tail servo into it and over power the problem. spent about 6 months trying to solve it--I had to replace parts with another brand..very poor Mikado-I was not happy.. also Mikado would not exchange me a new Mikado tail assy unless I purchased it..all I wanted to do is try a replacement assy..the UK quick assy is very nice and adds very little weight-but just to give you a heads up the grips are aluminum..so they are a bit heavier.. its the least expensive correction to the problem.
best of luck

I also tried over and over to get rid of a slight wag in the tail. Put the Quick UK tail on last week tested it this weekend and the wag is gone.

[marke]

I tried the ball size reduction till it was very loose and smooth -no luck.. but with reducing all friction and replacing the servo seems to have help others.... but I feel the servo is just a band aid to an existing issue with the grips and bearings--why when replacing the grips with the UK grips and hub solves the issue might have something to do with the looseness of the Mikado bearings and side loading the thrust bearing causing like a "cogging" effect on the thrust bearing--just my theory..

any ways the UK Quick grips are the least expensive fix and they look almost like the stock grips except for them being aluminum--top quality--but looks like there only available from England--but they will ship to the USA ..also if you notice all other kits that use this tail assy have a very strong tail servo or full size tail servo which can over come any poor mechanical performance. also if the only solution Mikado can come up with is a better servo they should replace all the savox servos for the futaba servo----Funny that wont happen--I suggested that,, it went no where..you know $$$$.. in all fairness the heli flys very well with the wag--but I said this before -its a Mikado... we buy Mikado because why??? we want the best--very disappointing when you build the best especially when its your first one and you chase some like this--reminds you of the old Align days..other then this issue I love the heli-but disappointed with Mikado's lack of urgency/support with this--

[Freeskiken]

Still one of the best flying electric Helicopters.

A lot of people in the past would put the Quick UK tail on to run bigger blades with no issue.

Funny I don't have the same issue on my 600SE. Saying that I am still going to put the UK tail on it. I really like the Speedix tail case as well.

[marke]

this is true -you will not have any problem with any of the other Mikado's other then the original tail grip assy with the Savox servo--all other helis use a more powerful/faster servo-that's why this is unique to the 480 Combo with the savox..the tail grip assy is still the issue. if it was just the servo it would not be solved by just replacing with UK quick tail--good choice going with the quick tail-hope you have the same positive experience I did.. best of luck-- I also agree as far as the best flying electric-its so smooth and quiet -it truly is my favorite heli--also looks like the big brother- the 700--my hope to someday own one...

[Freeskiken]

I think it's the same tail but it was a 500SE I had the tail wag problems with. I am using a BLS251 servo. With me 600SE I ended up having a problem with the flanged bearing. The tail shaft is stuck in the bearing. So I replaced the case with the Speedix case. The bearings in this case are always in alignment and it is easy to adjust the belt tension.