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Mikado Logo Helicopters Mikado Logo Helicopters Discussion |
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08-21-2015, 11:53 AM | #21 (permalink) |
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I thought about machining some bushings so you could use M3 motor mount screws and not have all that slop between the screws and the slots in the motor mount but in the end, I just retapped my 25mm motors M4.
More recently, I've acquired a few Mikado edition and KDE G3 motors specifically for the dual bolt patterns. I even had the tiny 'Goblin 380' 500xf-925 g3 in my Logo600 for a while. FWIW, I have no idea why a 16T Mod0.7 pinion would split in two unless the additional cross section caused problems with their welding process. I have several 12T pinions that have minimal cross section and I've been running them for years with no problems. Just keep in mind that the Mod0.7 gear is 153T and the Mod1.0 is 106. So, a 16T/M0.7 is equivalent to an 11T/M1.0. However, with very high power, the 11T/M1.0 may eat your gears over time. Personally, I think the better solution is the KDE 550xf-1200kv g3 motor as it has similar power ratings in a smaller package and doesn't require the unobtainum 16T0.7 or switching to Mod1.0
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08-21-2015, 12:11 PM | #22 (permalink) | |
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well I guess u can find some carbon tubing to fit over the 3mm screws
to make up the difference. this way there are no alignment issue's. I just think this is all just plain ridiculous and trying really hard to make it happen for me but I just decide that the hell with this kit. Nobody needs this grief and in end I'm not supporting mikado. they still have edge blades and scorpion motors in warehouse that there trying to offset.... clearly when logo 600 where popular I do recall guys stripping gears left and right. Using after market gears. Part of that problem is everyone using 12S on a machine designed to run 10S. thanks for all the input Quote:
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DIABOLO: PYRO 800 Kv510 YY (built by HeliFX),MKS, Vbar 5.3 + YGE160HV, JR 11X DMS || GOBLIN 570: HKIII4025 1.5mm YY Kv 620 12S(built by HeliFX),JR 8917HV, Vbar 5.3, Heli JIVE v13 || Mikado LOGO550SX v2 https://sites.google.com/site/helifxmotors/ |
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08-21-2015, 12:17 PM | #23 (permalink) |
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end of the day looks like
I need to get rid of the motor mount, counter support, 0.7 gear support bearing just so I can fly the machine with my motor. or spend 450 buck on P650 which still need mods. either buy mikado 4025, kde(no interested in that motor) or Xnova on a brand new kit .... thanks everyone for trying to help with all your suggestions. no surprise nothing from mikado reps. oh well
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DIABOLO: PYRO 800 Kv510 YY (built by HeliFX),MKS, Vbar 5.3 + YGE160HV, JR 11X DMS || GOBLIN 570: HKIII4025 1.5mm YY Kv 620 12S(built by HeliFX),JR 8917HV, Vbar 5.3, Heli JIVE v13 || Mikado LOGO550SX v2 https://sites.google.com/site/helifxmotors/ |
08-21-2015, 12:30 PM | #24 (permalink) |
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Join Date: Dec 2007
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HeliFX,
Very sorry to hear about your frustrations with the new heli. I do not have a specific answer for you as to why the motor mount system is the way it is. I think they saw a lot of the newer motors switching over to 30mm mounts and decided to keep that as a standard for their newer machines. I have run a 15t mod 0.7 pinion on the stock power system and have never stripped a main gear. With that being said, if you decided to go to a mod 1.0 setup, I doubt you would strip a main gear, when properly meshed and regeardless if there is a counter bearing or not. If you want to use your 25mm spacing motor, pm me, I may have some of the motor mounts and counterbearings laying around. I know motor choice for this machine has been limited since day one, so I am offering my help to make your end of the deal better. Thanks, Jesse
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08-21-2015, 12:57 PM | #25 (permalink) | |
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thanks Jesse
pm sent cheers Quote:
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DIABOLO: PYRO 800 Kv510 YY (built by HeliFX),MKS, Vbar 5.3 + YGE160HV, JR 11X DMS || GOBLIN 570: HKIII4025 1.5mm YY Kv 620 12S(built by HeliFX),JR 8917HV, Vbar 5.3, Heli JIVE v13 || Mikado LOGO550SX v2 https://sites.google.com/site/helifxmotors/ |
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08-21-2015, 01:30 PM | #26 (permalink) |
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actually if anyone has old mikado scorpion 4025 either destroyed /junk
I'd buy that all I really need is the stator holder which has the 30 mm /4 m slots ?
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DIABOLO: PYRO 800 Kv510 YY (built by HeliFX),MKS, Vbar 5.3 + YGE160HV, JR 11X DMS || GOBLIN 570: HKIII4025 1.5mm YY Kv 620 12S(built by HeliFX),JR 8917HV, Vbar 5.3, Heli JIVE v13 || Mikado LOGO550SX v2 https://sites.google.com/site/helifxmotors/ |
08-21-2015, 03:03 PM | #27 (permalink) |
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Location: Trondheim Norway
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The 4mm slots in the motormount in combination with 3mm bolts is no issue at least not for me as i used align 450 thrust bearing races as washers but i assume normal washers will do.
For me it was to use what i had available.
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Logo 600SX Warp 360 Chase 360 Exo 500 |
08-21-2015, 03:36 PM | #28 (permalink) |
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did use the counter support bearing ?
if I swap out the bearing to accept 6 mm shaft will I have line-up issues ?
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DIABOLO: PYRO 800 Kv510 YY (built by HeliFX),MKS, Vbar 5.3 + YGE160HV, JR 11X DMS || GOBLIN 570: HKIII4025 1.5mm YY Kv 620 12S(built by HeliFX),JR 8917HV, Vbar 5.3, Heli JIVE v13 || Mikado LOGO550SX v2 https://sites.google.com/site/helifxmotors/ |
08-21-2015, 03:51 PM | #29 (permalink) |
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Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Trondheim Norway
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No, did not use that.
You just have to line up the pinion when mounting the motor.
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Logo 600SX Warp 360 Chase 360 Exo 500 |
08-21-2015, 04:00 PM | #30 (permalink) |
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counter support I like mostly cause mikado gears can strip due side frame flexing.
can anyone tell me if counter support could work with the 25 mm motor mount? again I don't want to open the kit and check. really appreciate it ... again thanks for all the help
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DIABOLO: PYRO 800 Kv510 YY (built by HeliFX),MKS, Vbar 5.3 + YGE160HV, JR 11X DMS || GOBLIN 570: HKIII4025 1.5mm YY Kv 620 12S(built by HeliFX),JR 8917HV, Vbar 5.3, Heli JIVE v13 || Mikado LOGO550SX v2 https://sites.google.com/site/helifxmotors/ |
08-21-2015, 04:01 PM | #31 (permalink) |
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Swapping out for the mod 1.0 gears is no trouble at all and gives you a stronger system in the end.
Here are docs that RyanW wrote up on the mod 1.0 conversion. Logo550SX-mod1 Also, here is a great build thread on the 550SX started by mkovalcson. https://www.helifreak.com/showthread.php?t=593394
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08-21-2015, 05:40 PM | #32 (permalink) |
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The biggest contributions to main gear stripping on the 600 was 11t pinion ang high KV motors.
11t give less teeth engagement then bigger pinions and resulted in the pinion eating away on the maingear. Now that is fixed with a wider main gear and pinion. However these is a 600 problem and not a 500 problem. My 500 was a beast with 12s setup, 4035-500 motor and 550/560 blades and i did run my on mod 0,7 in the beginning but after splitting two 17t pinions i swapped to mod1. The issue with the old mod 0,7 pinipns was spot welds betwen the inner and outer part of the pinion breaking off during heavy loads. Mod1 pinions was seam welded and did not split
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Logo 600SX Warp 360 Chase 360 Exo 500 |
08-21-2015, 05:47 PM | #33 (permalink) | |
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this pdf is straight from Mikado USA. Interesting
since I need a motor mount with 25 mm as a few have mentioned here this pdf mod only applies 30 mm motors with 6 mm shaft. I still can't use the counter support with 25 mm spaced motors. I feel counter support is important piece at least in the mikado kits. or risk stripping gears and losing the heli. unless your run very low headspeed and general sport flying then your fine. I don't sport fly so does mod 1.0 have the deeper grooves ? again its v2 kit so it might have been wise too include mod 1.0 not 0.7 mod. oh wait that means that had to redo the counter support. Now I know why Here my assessment .. -buy $$$ the 25 mm motor mount -hope when you install you manage to align the motor pinion straight and true. -throw away the counter support -throw away the kit motor mount -change out the motor shaft to 5 mm (so u can use mod 0.7 gear) -or keep 6 mm motor shaft , throw away mod 0.7 gears / pinion -buy $$ mod 1.0 gear / pinion 30 mm spaced motor other the mikado scorpion. follow that pdf !! Please correct me if I mistaken. Again thanks for all the help. Mikado should fire there entire market research team Quote:
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DIABOLO: PYRO 800 Kv510 YY (built by HeliFX),MKS, Vbar 5.3 + YGE160HV, JR 11X DMS || GOBLIN 570: HKIII4025 1.5mm YY Kv 620 12S(built by HeliFX),JR 8917HV, Vbar 5.3, Heli JIVE v13 || Mikado LOGO550SX v2 https://sites.google.com/site/helifxmotors/ |
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08-21-2015, 06:05 PM | #34 (permalink) | |
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good know 500 on 12S seemly worked.
so are the 0.7 mod gear still to date spot welded ? or has mikado fix this ? will all your different config I'm assuming your not using a counter support. is this correct ? Quote:
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DIABOLO: PYRO 800 Kv510 YY (built by HeliFX),MKS, Vbar 5.3 + YGE160HV, JR 11X DMS || GOBLIN 570: HKIII4025 1.5mm YY Kv 620 12S(built by HeliFX),JR 8917HV, Vbar 5.3, Heli JIVE v13 || Mikado LOGO550SX v2 https://sites.google.com/site/helifxmotors/ |
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08-21-2015, 08:14 PM | #35 (permalink) |
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A lot of strange "truths" about Mikado machines in this thread:
(1) The 16T pinion was not cracking...not sure where that came from (2) Mikado 600 gears were not stripping...Ran my older Logo 6003D on 12s for years without issues. Incorrect gear mesh by people trying to use the paper method or something other than what Mikado suggested was why some stripped gears. (3) The Mikado 550SX with work with any motor in the 100KV range that has 30mm bolt spacing and a 5mm shaft. If you want to use you special motors that has 30mm bolt spacing, replace the shaft with a 5mm one if need be...takes minimal tools and 15 minutes. (4) 10s, 12s, 6s, has no bearing on power...gearing does. HV runs cooler but does not necessarily mean more power... (5) Follow the instructions on how to assemble the heli and you never have to worry about getting the pinion aligned true. You install the pinion loosely on the shaft of the motor. Next slide the motor up to the main gear tightly and align the pinion. Next tighten the motor down, then tighten the pinion by spinning the main shaft on the motor to get the grub screw aligned with the side of the heli....super simple.
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08-21-2015, 08:43 PM | #36 (permalink) | |
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as replacing shaft not the issue. I've rewound over 200 plus motor for many folks. replacing the shaft is non-issue for me.
I can safely say I know my way around any motor on the market !!! Kv, gear and headroom again not an issue with me. I pretty much used every esc on the market and done extensive testing when I rewound motors. 600 stripping gears well i thought it was a machine design to run at 10S and most decided to use 12S hence the stripping. my special motor is a scorpion HKIII 4025 which is 25 mm spacing with M3 bolts. Sorry my only option is the motor list early in the thread. mikado scorpion 4025 KDE x-nova shaft C 4025 30 mm spacing is still not available to market P650 ( sure 400 to 500 buck later plus the added items from PDF ) thanks for tip but it probably make more sense to just find carbon tubing that fits M3 bolt and O.D make up M4 spacing. that too me more of sound solution ... sorry I don't half ass things. well I know for sure that guys in german where stripping gears left and right with rewound motors. this why I feel it important for my setup to have the counter support. Quote:
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DIABOLO: PYRO 800 Kv510 YY (built by HeliFX),MKS, Vbar 5.3 + YGE160HV, JR 11X DMS || GOBLIN 570: HKIII4025 1.5mm YY Kv 620 12S(built by HeliFX),JR 8917HV, Vbar 5.3, Heli JIVE v13 || Mikado LOGO550SX v2 https://sites.google.com/site/helifxmotors/ |
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08-21-2015, 08:51 PM | #37 (permalink) |
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Hey, you can move up to mod 1.0 main gear and mod 1.0 pinion, very cheap and will have more choice for the motor.
Helidirect is going to have XNova motor for Logo 550 too, send them an email for the ETA. You can use motor with 5mm shaft and mod 1.0 pinion with 6mm holes by using the bushing from the motor pulley of the Goblin 500/570. That busing included in every Goblin 500/570 kit but not everyone use it on their helicopter. I have done that before without any issue. |
08-21-2015, 08:52 PM | #38 (permalink) |
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btw some us are aware that herringbone gears should have very little backlash or non at all for proper gear.
so not sure about the paper thingy u mentioned. gear stripping was also largely caused by frame flex which Mikado supposedly changed the plastic carbon compounded to be stiffer. I doubt they redesigned the side frame cause that would be super expensive to redo all the tool and die
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DIABOLO: PYRO 800 Kv510 YY (built by HeliFX),MKS, Vbar 5.3 + YGE160HV, JR 11X DMS || GOBLIN 570: HKIII4025 1.5mm YY Kv 620 12S(built by HeliFX),JR 8917HV, Vbar 5.3, Heli JIVE v13 || Mikado LOGO550SX v2 https://sites.google.com/site/helifxmotors/ |
08-21-2015, 08:58 PM | #39 (permalink) | |
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yup thought about the Goblin bushing. way ahead of u there.
well I have invested in scorpion motors and that the problem for me. these motors have had extensive work done to them and clearly this is my big hesitation with this kit. counter support won't work with hk4025 I have to fork out more $$$ for another motor brand. X-nova great its just Xera re-branded (new owners that all) Pyro great motor (over priced motors) my opinion Quote:
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DIABOLO: PYRO 800 Kv510 YY (built by HeliFX),MKS, Vbar 5.3 + YGE160HV, JR 11X DMS || GOBLIN 570: HKIII4025 1.5mm YY Kv 620 12S(built by HeliFX),JR 8917HV, Vbar 5.3, Heli JIVE v13 || Mikado LOGO550SX v2 https://sites.google.com/site/helifxmotors/ |
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08-21-2015, 09:10 PM | #40 (permalink) |
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btw gear stripping is also caused by governor gains set to high for given RPM.
checking mikado USA site. anyone know if 25 mm motor mount list earlier for logo 500 also has a counter support bearing ? looking but no dice ... I guess not surely someone has made custom mount somewhere. scorpion motor are pretty popular motors
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DIABOLO: PYRO 800 Kv510 YY (built by HeliFX),MKS, Vbar 5.3 + YGE160HV, JR 11X DMS || GOBLIN 570: HKIII4025 1.5mm YY Kv 620 12S(built by HeliFX),JR 8917HV, Vbar 5.3, Heli JIVE v13 || Mikado LOGO550SX v2 https://sites.google.com/site/helifxmotors/ |
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