Spartan AP2000i flight stabilizer

[GGoodrum]

Yep, just add another setup item to enable/disable this feature.

Once enabled, everytime you go from "OFF" to any positive amount of gain, the system would just use the current aileron, elevator and pitch inputs as a new "zero" reference point. Pretty simple, really.

-- Gary

[Angelos]

The small change of trim is not related to stick inputs. It is caused from the sensor picking up uneven heat on the opposite sides. This could be memorised the moment the stabilisation is activated and then used to offset subsequent sensor readings. The implementation is very easy but I have some doubts whether it is a good idea or not. If you switch on the stabiliser while the heli is in a perfect hover everything is great. But if you switch it on while it is tilted, then the stabiliser will thing this is the desired attitude, thus it will try to hold the helicopter at that wrong angle.

-Angelos

[dreslism]

Originally Posted by Angelos

The small change of trim is not related to stick inputs. It is caused from the sensor picking up uneven heat on the opposite sides. This could be memorised the moment the stabilisation is activated and then used to offset subsequent sensor readings. The implementation is very easy but I have some doubts whether it is a good idea or not. If you switch on the stabiliser while the heli is in a perfect hover everything is great. But if you switch it on while it is tilted, then the stabiliser will thing this is the desired attitude, thus it will try to hold the helicopter at that wrong angle.

-Angelos

Understood about the trim, I think Gary and I meant what you said, but just refered to it as trim because that is what it causes us to do. I also understand about the good idea or not.

Someone may be using it to "save their bacon" when in a bad situation by just turning the unit on and expecting it to right their heli when it would end up doing nothing in this situation.

How about some other way to remotely activate the "store these IR readings as level" feature.

Not something as difficult as "Stand on one foot, while hopping around in a circle while flipping the switch on and off 5 times..."

But for example:

Something like sensitivity from 0-100% within some short time, then sensitivity down to the desired setting within some time. This would be the trigger to activate the my heli is now level, store these IR readings as normal feature. Once that is done, then the sensitivity will work as it does today where it can be adjusted at will.

Maybe even just make the "stored IR readings when level" as ram stored values so they are thrown away when power is removed from the unit, and it has to be done again next time heli is up in the air and all is good again.

This would provide some level of protection from someone "hurting themselves(i.e. crashing)" by forgetting there were some stored settings and flying and having as issue because values were stored from somewhere they flew last time.

Again, make this feature configurable in the setup menu, and make the default = OFF, then it does not affect anyone out there unless they want to use it.

Angelos, I love this unit, and it allows me to shoot solo, but if the above could be added (and you said it was simple :wink: ) Then this thing would be perfect.

Thanks!

[GGoodrum]

I totally agree. I think this feature would make an already great product just about perfect. If it were enabled and disabled via the Setup process, it might keep the "save the bacon" guys from messing up, while still letting the rest of us use this "cal" feature.

If there was a way to drive another input from the receiver, we could assign a button or a spring-loaded switch. That would be my preference.

-- Gary

[AZ ChopperCam]

If there was a way to drive another input from the receiver, we could assign a button or a spring-loaded switch. That would be my preference.

well jeeez Gary, that's easily said when you've got a 14 channel radio at your disposal! I'm nearly maxed out on my 9 channel TX's

hmmmm maybe I ought to get one of those new Futaba 12 or 14 TX's.... no wait... I need an HDV camera... damn! so much stuff I "need" and not enough $$$$

[GGoodrum]

Well, for once, I'm actually glad I have this $%#@ 14MZ!

I'm definitely going camera shopping tomorrow...

[Angelos]

Well, there is a way to activate the calibration with a switch without using an extra channel. Currently the AP-2000i gain is adjusted from a slider that runs between -100% and 100% ATV which may vary a bit depending on the radio make. Whatever the case these values are not the maximum the radio can produce and they can be overshot if you add the right mix on the slider.

For example you can set a mix to be activated from a switch and to subtract a 10% offset from the slider. Thus reducing the minimum value of the slider to -110%. The AP-2000i can be made to detect this -110% and calibrate. With this method you will of course need to have the stabiliser off while you activate calibration.

-Angelos

[GGoodrum]

Originally Posted by Angelos

Well, there is a way to activate the calibration with a switch without using an extra channel. Currently the AP-2000i gain is adjusted from a slider that runs between -100% and 100% ATV which may vary a bit depending on the radio make. Whatever the case these values are not the maximum the radio can produce and they can be overshot if you add the right mix on the slider.

For example you can set a mix to be activated from a switch and to subtract a 10% offset from the slider. Thus reducing the minimum value of the slider to -110%. The AP-2000i can be made to detect this -110% and calibrate. With this method you will of course need to have the stabiliser off while you activate calibration.

-Angelos

Brilliant!

Let me know if you need a beta tester. Seriously, this would be VERY cool.

Thanks -- Gary

[wwellman]

I use the AP200 pretty regularly doing aerial 360 virtual tours. It holds the copter steady, but everytime I switch the unit on (gain about 38%) it slowly rocks the heli. The only example I can give is when you spin a quarter and it slowly slows down and it eventually wobbles around its edges before laying flat. I hope that made sense!

Any ideas or similar experiences?

Walter (formally known as "doom")

[GGoodrum]

It sounds like you are using a switch, which is set to 38%, is that right? Have you tried using a slider to gradually bring it up to 38% from off? Are you having to adjust the trim after setting it to 38%?

Unless you are flying in the exact same location, pointing in the exact same direction, at the same time of day and under the exact same weather conditions, for each and every flight, the IR sensors are going to detect varying amounts of heat deifferences between the four sensors. Right now, this always requires a bit of "re-trimming" once the system is enabled. With the old CoPilot system, they had a manual calibration procedure that basically just made sure you got the sensors level in the hover plane of the helicopter. I really don't see this as a big deal, as you still had to "tweak" the trims each time you flew it, due to surrounding terrain differences (i.e. -- buildings, hills, people, etc.). With this setup, you just need to basically "eyeball" it to get it as level as possible. In use, the procedure we all have been using is to basically keep it off, get into a hover up around 20-30 feet, trimm it out, bring the gain on the AP-2000i up to about 30% and then re-trim it until it hods. At that point you can increase the gain to about 60%, and it is pretty much hands-off. If you have a gusting wind, it will drift a bit with the gusts, but in a steady wind, even a strong one, it will hold quite well.

What we've been talking about for this "auto-cal" function is simply having a way to tell the AP-2000i that "I am in a trimmed out hover condition right now.", so that it can simply use the current sensor readings as a zero reference point.

There are two huge advantages this system provides, for me, at least. One, it lets me frame still shots myself, using the low-profile video glasses, the camera mount's tilt control and the horizontal tail control of the heli itself. I tried this yesterday, and it works. I wear the glasses but look over/above them to fly. Once I have the AP-2000i engaged, and the heli stable, I look down into the glasses to see the camera view. A couple of quick tweaks is usually all it takes, and then I snap away.

The other very beneficial advantage I see in using the AP-2000i is that you can go to much higher altitudes than you normally would feel comfortable doing. This also means you can use a smaller helicopter in situations that might otherwise require a larger ship. This has obvious safety benefits. For doing neighborhood real estate shoots, for instance, I generally don't feel comfortable flying something as big as a Raptor, much less anything bigger. That's why I did the Logo 10 rig. There are some shots I've had to do, however, where even its size seems too much, which is why I'm now doing a Quick Japan stretched ep-8 (420mm blades...). The problem is that it is much harder to see, especially with my 50-year old eyes. . With the AP-2000i, however, I will be much more confident.

I mainly plan on using my Raptor for video work, but even here, I think the AP-2000i will be beneficial, as it will allow me to fly it out farther, with confidence, than I normally would feel comfortable doing.

-- Gary

[DebianDog]

Hey Gary any chance you could make a video of this radio procedure? I think I understand but when I see things it is just a lot easier.

We would be happy to host it. :cool:

[GGoodrum]

Maybe, but I think I'd like to wait until Angelos does a software update to add this cal feature, assuming he can and will do it, of course.

[DebianDog]

Cool. I need one of these for the Condor my "High Hover" looks like ass... Well it looks O.K. from the ground but not on film

[LoopBaCK]

Just ordered mine today! All this talk got me to spending money... but it'll be money well spent.

[MarkWebber]

I need one of these for the Condor my "High Hover" looks like ass

Mine used to also. Not any more

but it'll be money well spent

There's no doubt about that.

[Angelos]

The oscillations are probably due to the gain suddenly jumping to high value. I assume they go away within a few seconds. I already have this on my list of things to add to the firmware… a slow transition between gain values.

Regarding the calibration I will sort something out early August. I’m off on holiday soon.

-Angelos

[dreslism]

Originally Posted by GGoodrum

Brilliant!

Let me know if you need a beta tester. Seriously, this would be VERY cool.

Thanks -- Gary

Yes, great idea Angelos. I'm ready to test it also.

I think you use futaba 9c radio also, as do I, so if you do this update, please let me know how you set yours up.

Thanks, and again, this would make your excellent product even better. Basically it would in my mind give me more flight time.

I fly electric, and only fly for AP, so my flight times are limited to battery time, and the less minutes I have to spend messing around with trimming is the extra couple minutes I get to get the shot.

Thanks,

[Exposure]

The General Laser stabiliser has been around for a while:

It works with all PCM and PPM receivers
It supports CCPM swashplates
It supports a vertical sensor
It already has in-flight calibration
It's cheaper and more convenient than buying an AP2000 + FMA Sensor

http://www.rcmarket.org/product.php?...cat=141&page=1

What am I missing here :?:

[AZ ChopperCam]

that unit looks to be $234 US. not much difference. Why is it more "convenient" to buy it? buying my AP2000i was as convenient as going to Mark Webbers site. Took me about 120 seconds to buy it.

Anyways... I have not heard of that unit and not sure why.

[MarkWebber]

Took me about 120 seconds to buy it

Geez DJ...You counted?

Maybe I missed it but I didn't read anything about calibration, I don't care for how it's packaged (I don't know if it would have survived my recent crash but my AP2000i did!), without the USB cable available like Spartan's I would assume it's not upgradeable and I can't imagine the support being the same as one gets from Spartan. After all, Angelos is right on here addressing our questions personally As far as function, when I first started looking for a stabilizer for my use, I heard of General Laser but no reviews from anyone using one. Lots of reviews for happy Spartan users was enough to sell me.