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Newbies: Tips and Information Section of HF, specifically for Passing along info to newcomers to the hobby. Setup, tweaking, orientation practice, etc.


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Old 10-13-2006, 02:43 AM   #21
rfalls86
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i got a blade cp pro and have lots of trouble keeping it in the air for more then 3-6 seconds without it crashing...third time flying it...should i get a simulator or should i keep trying on real thing? ive already spent 80 bucks on fixes :?
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Old 10-19-2006, 01:14 PM   #22
WarMace
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A simulator is always a good thing. Much cheaper to crash on the computer than in real life. Also realize that the Blade CP Pro is relatively hard to control. It is designed to be very responsive for aggressive flight. Good for 3D flight but not great for beginners. A bigger helicopter like a TRex or 30 nitro is more stable and easier to control. Get a simulator and a good pair of training gear and keep at it.
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Old 11-11-2006, 08:11 PM   #23
Canuck 2005
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Just got a TREX SE, I Have also purchased a JR7202 radio for my aircraft and was wondering if this is a good combo for the electric heli. I am a little confused on throttle curve in relation to pitch. I flew heli's in about 86 so the techno aspect is much improved since then. I will tell you man these new choppers are sweet. Having a blast putting it together although there is not to much to do. Also got a 401 Gyro and a 2100 lipo battery. Guy at the hobby shop said this was a good start into the hobby. Looking forward to getting as much info as possible from all you experts out there.
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Old 11-12-2006, 04:46 PM   #24
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I use the JR7202 for my TRex and nitro with great results. The PCM receiver fits and works great, just be sure it's not masking any glitchs. Use a PPM receiver if you can get a hold of one to check the electronics set-up. If it doesn't glitch with the PPM then the PCM receiver will be set. If you used to fly nitros, the throttle curve for the electric with be much different. Throttle needs to be much higher. Check out the Finless videos for a lot of set-up info. The 401 is a great gyro. You should be happy with it.

Any questions, let me know.
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Old 11-12-2006, 09:30 PM   #25
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The 7202 is a very nice radio and great for either electric or nitro heli.

If you are starting from scratch get a Spektrum DX7, same computer radio as JR7202 but with 2.4GHz spread spectrum technology that eliminates glitches, shootdowns and channel/frequency management conflicts.
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* MSH Protos Stock motor/15t/Align75/Align DS510/GL730+DS520/7s A123 2300
* TRex450CF/430L/12t/CC45/HS65mg/L2100T/KP 3s 2200 25C or 4S LiFe
Previous rides: HX242, W5-4, TRex450(HDE), TRex450(SE), QJ-EP8v2, BCX2 ,Logo10, Hurricane550
SIM: Phoenix (previously also Reflex/XTR, ClearView, RF, FMS)
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Old 11-12-2006, 09:49 PM   #26
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DX7 is not in the USA yet some time late this month or next month Can't wait from what I read and hear about it it's the shiz-nit
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Old 11-12-2006, 10:50 PM   #27
Canuck 2005
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Already have the radio as I fly RC aircraft as well. I have a PPM reciever so will try this first. Have been going through the video,s and what a wealth of information. Have learned a lot already. Am getting pumped about this bird.
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Old 11-13-2006, 12:02 PM   #28
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Horizon is showing "early december" for DX7 availability here, 349 is the price.
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Old 02-07-2007, 12:04 AM   #29
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Hi, im a beginner and just bought a Blade CP as my first Heli....It was kinda hard to learn on, but found that out after I bought. I can keep a good hover, and my forward flight movement is pretty good, but I hate the tail motor on the CP, I cant seem to ever get it to keep no matter how much I trim, or adjust the 4 in 1. I was thinking maybe a belt driven tail would work better and Im thinking about getting a better Heil like a Trex450, or the HDX450....Anyone have any input on the quality of these helis, and how much more stable, or unstable they are compared to the Blade CP?...Thank You
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Old 02-07-2007, 12:09 AM   #30
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I haven't tried the HDX450, but I think it's very comparable to the T-Rex 450 (with many parts being interchangable). Generally, helis get more stable with size. Without question, the T-Rex 450 is a quantum leap up from the Blade CP in many ways. The initial cash outlay is higher, but the repairs are actually cheaper. Because the T-Rex 450 is so incredibly popular, parts and good info are very easy to come by.

If you decide to go for the T-Rex you might want to check out my reference page on getting started with the Rex. Click on the link at the bottom of this post.
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Old 02-07-2007, 01:27 AM   #31
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Get a T450se (or T450s if you cannot afford the se) you will be amazed how much better, smoother and easier it is than a BCP. It is however a singificant step up in total investment. Get a setup like this:

Radio: Spektrum DX7 + AR6100 rx
Heli: T450se + 430L(3550) + BL35G + 3xHS-65MG + GY401 + S9650
Power: 3 x FP EVO20 3S 2170 + eStation BC6 (or BC8)
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* MSH Protos Stock motor/15t/Align75/Align DS510/GL730+DS520/7s A123 2300
* TRex450CF/430L/12t/CC45/HS65mg/L2100T/KP 3s 2200 25C or 4S LiFe
Previous rides: HX242, W5-4, TRex450(HDE), TRex450(SE), QJ-EP8v2, BCX2 ,Logo10, Hurricane550
SIM: Phoenix (previously also Reflex/XTR, ClearView, RF, FMS)
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Old 02-07-2007, 11:50 AM   #32
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Thanks for the Info. Im most likely going to go with the HDX450, being that it is very similar to the Trex450se both in parts and design, with its carbonfiber body, and alum head, but its much cheaper, I managed to find it on ebay going for as low as 180 for the kit with motor....But still a while before I can gather the funds. Not to mention that I will need a totally new set up because the 4-1 on the BCP is useless. New radio and what not which is gonna cost me...figur Ill just sell the BCP once I get my new heli and buy the radio with that cash...Thanks once again....
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Old 02-07-2007, 08:45 PM   #33
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What's the difference between the Trex-es?

First, the 450, compared to a 600 - is it just size?

Second, what do the suffixes mean? (SE versus S versus a couple others)
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Old 02-07-2007, 11:01 PM   #34
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The naming/numbering of eHelis is a bit of a mess.

In nitro helis the number (30, 50, 90) typically refers to the engine displacement (0.30, 0.50, 0.90 cu in) as an overall class specifier. Related to that is the main rotor blade size (30-class 400-500mm, 50-class 500-600, 90-class 600-800).

In electrics it is less clear although there is a slight trend for new models to be named/numbered by their notional main blade length (eg mini-Titan325, logo 550dx, TRex600 etc).

Quote:
First, the 450, compared to a 600 - is it just size?
TRex450 = 315-335mm main blade, 300-400W, 3S-5S batteries, <1kg
TRex600 = 550-600mm main blade, 1500-2500W, 6S-10S batteries, <8kg

So you could say the difference is just size, but it has many implications for the all up cost. The blades/motors/batteries/chargers for a T600 cost 3 to 10 times as much as those for a T450. One great thing about Align is that the bulk of the parts for the T600 are only 10-20% more expensive than those for the T450 making them a lot cheaper than any other popular 50-class eHeli.

Quote:
Second, what do the suffixes mean? (SE versus S versus a couple others)
Within the T450 family:

Worth considering:
S = latest model, kit version of SA, aluminium or CF frame, metal headblock <= Best value for money if on a tight budget
SA = latest model, ARF version of SA, aluminium or CF frame, metal headblock <= Good value but I would save the money and get an "S"
SE = lastest model, CF frame, all metal head, all metal tail <= best choice as the metal head and tail are much more robust and survive crash after crash

Not worth considering IMO:
X = oldest model, shorter tailboom, all plastic <= Don't buy it, see the S/SA instead
XL/HDE = recently outdated, mechanical mixing (don't need radio with CCPM features), all plastic <= Don't buy it, see the S/SA instead
XL/CDE = recently outdated, CCPM mixing, all plastic <= Don't buy it, see the S/SA instead
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* MSH Protos Stock motor/15t/Align75/Align DS510/GL730+DS520/7s A123 2300
* TRex450CF/430L/12t/CC45/HS65mg/L2100T/KP 3s 2200 25C or 4S LiFe
Previous rides: HX242, W5-4, TRex450(HDE), TRex450(SE), QJ-EP8v2, BCX2 ,Logo10, Hurricane550
SIM: Phoenix (previously also Reflex/XTR, ClearView, RF, FMS)
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Old 02-09-2007, 08:01 PM   #35
slikrx
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kgfly
The naming/numbering of eHelis is a bit of a mess.
SE = lastest model, CF frame, all metal head, all metal tail <= best choice as the metal head and tail are much more robust and survive crash after crash

Not worth considering IMO:
X = oldest model, shorter tailboom, all plastic <= Don't buy it, see the S/SA instead
XL/HDE = recently outdated, mechanical mixing (don't need radio with CCPM features), all plastic <= Don't buy it, see the S/SA instead
XL/CDE = recently outdated, CCPM mixing, all plastic <= Don't buy it, see the S/SA instead

As you said... e-helis are complicated!!!

THANKS!!!

I figured the gassers were like that... (vague memories of my limited plank days, 12 odd years ago)

Even though I can't even hover my CPP yet (getting closer though) I'm starting to look ahead, and I'm 99% sure my future has a TRex in it.

After looking a couple places, the 600 is not THAT much more expensive than a 450SE. Are there limits on the 600 compared to the 450? While I don't even plan to compete in 3D or anything, I'd like to be able to throw it around pretty hard. Obviously the 450s handle it great.

My reasons for considering the 600 are: hobby aerial photog, and also the whole bigger/more stable thing. Cost is my reason for considering the 450SE (OK, they're easier to store as well )

I realize that the LiPo costs are probably the single biggest difference in starting costs (and a chunk for blades), but are there other considerations? Like, I haven't seen an "SE" version of the 600 which makes me wonder about upgrades needed.

Also, is this the correct thread for this? Unfortunately, searching for TRex 450 600 and comparison doesn't yield anything useful, but just looking for the same (minus "compare" or "comparison") yields hundreds of posts...
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Old 02-09-2007, 09:34 PM   #36
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Here's my take on the 450/600 comparison.

- They're both great helis.
- The 600 will cost more up-front, in repairs, and in LiPo's (that's just to be expected).
- I've never flown a 600, but I'm sure it flies much better than the 450 (which flies pretty darn well in my opinion). Big helis just fly really nice.
- Bigger means you can see it further, carry more with it, and probably not get away with flying it at your local schoolyard (that's pretty subjective - but I know it wouldn't be accepted at some of our sites).
- The 450 has gone through one heck of a lot of refinement. I'm sure the 600 benefits from a lot of that, but I suspect there are big refinements ahead for the 600.

I can't fit the 600 in my car with all my kitesurfing gear. But I'd take one if someone gave it to me. :mrgreen:
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Old 02-09-2007, 10:18 PM   #37
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The TRex600 is a great heli by reputation and is fully 3D capable. You only have to see videos of the demo flights to know that it can be as wild as you are ever likely to need. Certainly bigger=more stable and it makes a better serious AP platform than a T450.

It's not the kit cost or most of the spares costs that catch you with a T600 (or other 50-class eHeli), it's the batteries and chargers. The stock 6S batteries are operating so close to their limits that they tend to have very short lives (20-30 cycles if you fly 3D). The premium batteries (eg FP EVO) do better but are still heavily stressed. At $250-$400 per pack, and 4 to 8 minute flights, you need a few packs for reasonable fun.

For max 3D performance on a T600 you are looking at peaks over 2kW which at 6S is over 100A. That puts great stress on the batteries, cables, connectors and motor. For these reasons many people are going to higher voltage setups (LiPo or LiFe). A well chosen 10S setup will perform better while operating in far lower on the battery's performance curve, hence improving the chance of achieving a reasonable lifetime. The new A123/M1 LiFe cells are proving very interesting for eHelis. With a well designed setup they can deliver great performance at about half the price of LiPos and with the advantages of inherent safety (no fire risk), tolerate 100% discharge, physically robust and up to 4C charge rates. 10s A123 will deliver mild through sport performance, 15s has been shown to deliver 2.5kW wild 3D.

On the charger front you need a $300+ setup (eg eStation902+PB6, TP1010+210 or EOS1210i+LBA10 plus a heft DC bench supply for any of these), more than double what's needed for a T450.

For AP the two keys are low vibration and low weight (for endurance). The Logo family are very popular for AP. Once reason is their relatively light weight which leaves more margin for payload, endurance and gentler autos.

There is also the lifestyle factor. I can toss the T450, Tx and 3 batts on the front seat of my small car and go for a fly in a local park 2 minutes from home. If I had a T600 I would need a bigger car and be restricted to flying at a club site, it's just too big and dangerous for local parks. The nearest club site is almost an hour's drive away. I would never get to fly with that restriction.

The TRex500 could be a very nice compromise. While we don't have details, the guess is it will be 400-430mm blades. A size comparable to a Lepton or QJ-EP8. This is enough bigger than a T450 to give significantly greater stability and payload capacity but still fit into my lifestyle constraints. It is small enough to use mid-range batteries, maybe half the price of those for a T600 but big enough that A123 could also be a viable option.

So there are lots of factors. If I had somewhere to store, transport and fly a T600 then that would certainly be a leading contender today.

There are some upgrades for the T600 including metal blade grips and a torque tube tail drive. I have no idea if they are "needed" but the seem to be popular.

If you want to continue discussing you particular interests why not start a new thread then there's no concern about hijacking.
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* MSH Protos Stock motor/15t/Align75/Align DS510/GL730+DS520/7s A123 2300
* TRex450CF/430L/12t/CC45/HS65mg/L2100T/KP 3s 2200 25C or 4S LiFe
Previous rides: HX242, W5-4, TRex450(HDE), TRex450(SE), QJ-EP8v2, BCX2 ,Logo10, Hurricane550
SIM: Phoenix (previously also Reflex/XTR, ClearView, RF, FMS)
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Old 02-13-2007, 10:14 PM   #38
trevor1325
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Imma newbie to the heli world. I am 16 and I just got a Walkera. I know I know they arent the best but the funds are low and I needed a practice heli right? Any suggestions on helis that I will get more bang for my buck on?
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Old 02-13-2007, 10:29 PM   #39
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Trex 450 SE can't go wrong there. I like mine. or if you have the ducks Trex 600 CF I flew one yesterday man it's way sweet and very stable even in the 12 MPH wind.
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Old 02-14-2007, 08:28 AM   #40
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You didn't say which Walkera you have, but the biggest problem is the Radio gear that it comes with doesn't have the features required . You will need better gear for any other helicopter you buy, so look into buying better Radio gear, maybe useing it in your Walkera, (if you haven't trashed it) then moving up to a T-Rex 450 or HDX 450 if you want to stay in small electrics
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