Going off line - advice needed

[Bee_random]

Hi folks,

While I'd love to blame a gyro, I am now convinced I am the culprit. When looping, backward particularly, I am going off line and drifting out. Mostly to the left when viewed flying towards myself (backward). Less so, but still ther on fwd loops away from myself. I haven't checked every format, but it's not the heli and it is my thumbs

I am running about 25% expo on the tail and can replicate the behaviour in the simulator, but it's not so pronounced. I think it may be that I'm giving just the tiniest bit of aileron, but I'm not sure.

Do any of you kind folks have some hints or tips for how to train myself out of this?

All help is very much appreciated,
Cheers, B

[Russell Harding]

Keep in mind the tail rotor blows air to the right (with CW mains) when the heli is tail-in.

On hard maneuvers, (loops, rainbows, tic tocs) even if the axis if the heli is completely straight, the air blowing off the tail rotor will push the heli to the left.

If you think your thumbs are solid, it is probably something else. You'll need to roll the heli slightly to the right to account for this effect.

[Bee_random]

That has got me thinking... So, where in a hover I'm leaning to the right to compensate for the tail rotor thrust, in a loop it's even more important that I get this compensation just right as the effect is more obvious and compensation trickier while learning more refined corrections?

[Russell Harding]

Yes. Tail rotor thrust is greatly increased in FFF and 3D moves. Sometimes the TR thrust is variable... In a loop the torque is greatest at the bottom.

[Bee_random]

And I thought I was just dumb thumbing it.. Well I guess I was, but not the way I thought.

Is the answer to progression, to spend time on learning how to make corrections as I go through the manoeuvre in different orientations? - easier said than done as I am sitting in front of the sim at the moment

[Russell Harding]

Yes. Loops coming toward or away from yourself, tail or nose in are easiest because you'll see the drift.

Side-on loops are hard because it is very hard (especially on the sim without depth) to catch when the heli is not tracking in the plane you want it to.

[Heli.Maniac]

One way to find out is to tighten down your sticks (if your tx has this ability) which will make it harder to make accidental corrections. Do this for one flight just to see if interactions is the real problem or the heli.
In addition to the tail mentioned already, it may just be that your head gain is a little low and the FBL system cant hold the heli tight. If you can replicate the same symptoms at the sim though, I am pretty sure it is you. If you are doing it on the sim a little bit, you will do it more in reality because there is so much going on in our heads even for a simple loop.

[LN400]

About variable tail rotor thrust: Think how it's like to fly a heli with no gyro, HH in particular. Every time you move the throttle/collective stick, you would get unwanted yaw that would need correction. In the end that correction is done by varying the tail rotor thrust magnitude and thus the push sideways. Having a gyro helps tons on workload but it doesn't change the need for variable sideways push every time you move the thr/coll stick. You will constantly have to balance all of these forces or the heli will get funny ideas of its own so even though a loop looks better when the nose points straight into the path, the tail rotor might have its own opinion on how the heli should move.

[Boinker]

One thing that helped me out when I was starting out was to take the radio apart and tighten the Rudder control Spring. I have sense loosened it up as my Pinch fingers now work a little more linear. But what fixed it the most was the beating the head against the wall and banging out the orientations. When you are more comfortable you will make less mistakes. and I'm still training myself.

One thing that also helped alot was collective managment and making smooth inputs versus Popping it hard.

Just my thoughts.

Boinker.

[clicky]

It is definitively worth (and ultimate goal really) spending time and learning how to correct helicopter through out of all what you are doing.

Even loops and simple backflips. Ideal helicopter with ideal inputs might go through all of it without any issues, but nothing is ideal and all needs tiny corrections.

I've seen many times people asking here why their tic/tocs, for instance, are not good and go on explanation how to move elevator and collective sticks without even mentioning need for small but important corrections of aileron and rudder...

Same goes for all other moves. Good funnels or hurricanes, for instance, cannot be done without constant corrections (for wind, inconsistencies of helicopter, etc)...

[Bee_random]

Thanks guys. All of this is being taken on board and I'll continue to practice practice practice!

I think (hope) that my flying expectations of myself are a step higher this season. Previously I might have been satisfied to complete a move, now I want it to enter and exit exactly where I 'think' it to go, ready to transition into the next move... Guess this is a whole new level of skill to learn.

I'll play with the different stick stiffness, expo etc. but will also spend a lot more time on practicing linear control and (the big one) making small adjustments during manoeuvres.

Thank you again everybody. B

[Heli.Maniac]

What may help you learn that precise and clean control is to practise tic tocs on your play time if you cant do them yet. I know that they helped me make clean aileron and elevator movements because they forced me to since any small interaction during a tic toc will tilt the helicopter. That as well as tightening the sticks and adjusting stick length. Stick length also plays a big role in interactions due to the "geometry" of the finger and how you hold the TX.
But most importantly Practise, Practise and.... Practise