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TRM Power TRM Power - Toxic Al Factory Support Forum Worldwide. Any Product. |
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06-16-2007, 06:11 AM | #1 (permalink) |
Join Date: Apr 2006
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TRM service??????
Shame on you Miniature Aircraft for endorsing/recommending TRMs products to your customers. My experience with TRM/Alan has turned into nothing but frustration. I purchased a modified TRM motor from Heliproz because of Miniature Aircraft's recommendation of the same. Unfortunately, the motor developed tuning problems. I contacted Heliproz to exchange the motor but they said it had to go back to TRM. I shipped the motor to Alan ($10.64) regular USPS on Tuesday, 5/29/07 and he phoned me two days later, Thursday, 5/31/07 stating he had received the motor. He stated he had already torn the motor down and found nothing wrong but suspected the carburetor was faulty. He commented that the motor had been broken in very well and said to call him back in a couple days. I waited until the next Monday, 6/4/07 to call him back. As in previous phone calls to Alan, I received a voice message stating his voice mail was full; however, in the past he still knew I had called and returned the call within a short period of time. On this occasion, however, he did not return my call. In fact, I called him again that next Thursday, 6/7/07 and left a message for him to call me. This time he did return the call and apologized for not phoning back and said he'd been too busy. He further stated that he installed a new carburetor and that it made a "tremendous improvement." However, he does not carry the WT 643 heli carburetor but instead installed a WT 644 used in boat applications. I was concerned that the carb was different than the stock one because I'd read and heard that you should only use the WT 643 for heli use. He said that the 644 would work just as good. He went on to say that he was installing a new ring and that it should be there today (Thursday, 6/7/07). The motor was brand new so I have no idea why he was installing a new ring to begin with. And this guy is supposed to be in the business of building racing motors and doesn't even carry a ring for a Zenoah 231, not to mention the WT 643 carburetors? He builds motors for boats, not helicopters. He admits he knows nothing about setting up a gasser heli but only modifies the motor. Anyway, in that same phone conversation he went on to say that he would be shipping the motor back to me the next day, Friday, 6/8/07 and that if there was a problem he would call me. Today is Saturday, 6/16/07 and not only have I not heard from Alan but I do not have a motor. I live in Northern Minnesota and our flying season is very short. This delay is not only inconvenient but downright unnecessary. Alan has a lot to learn about customer service. Miniature Aircraft's reputation is on the line and they should take a hard look at who they recommend their customers to. It makes better sense to recommend stock motors instead of some fly-by-night operation like TRM. I'll be writing Miniature Aircraft and informing them of my experience with TRM and I'll also be contacting Heliproz again and describing the same. Once again I'm going to be requesting Heliproz exchange this TRM motor for a stock one, refund the difference and hopefully will make the right business decision to not carry TRM motors anymore.
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06-16-2007, 12:25 PM | #2 (permalink) |
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Al uses different carbs for the boat motors than the heli ones use. The heli engines come with the 643,644 or 645 carbs stock. There is no reason to stock the carbs in quantity since they come with the motor. He is currently out of the 643 version, but had the 644 carb which is a direct replacement unit.
Sometimes rings are out of stock as Al does not keep many. He modifies the motors from stock and replaces parts when folks burn them up, he does not need to keep many parts. I am quite sure that Al is taking care of your problem and wants to make sure that you receive back a motor than runs great. Later, BIGRCR-John Garst
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BIGRCR- John Garst Toxic Racing Motors IRCHA #1716 |
06-17-2007, 09:01 AM | #3 (permalink) |
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What most Heli guys don't understand is that there is an exclusive deal on the Zenoah Heli motors in this country and Al gets his from Miniature Aircraft only. The boat motors he can get from a variety of places and the boat motors are a LOT easier to get and in a lot better supply than the Heli Motors. It is complicated unfortunately.
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William James Crazy wife still trying to kill me. |
06-18-2007, 07:06 AM | #4 (permalink) |
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Join Date: Apr 2006
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Come to Alan's defense all you want. Maybe you should read my post again. His handling of my particular situation exhibits a complete lack of responsibility and shows just how much he cares about customers. This is nothing short of just plain poor business practice. By his own admission, he was too busy to return my calls. I guess he's also been too busy to ship the motor back to me. And he's not just a little late on returning the motor: it's now been 11 days since he said he'd ship it. He received the motor two days after I shipped it to him, and, as I stated above, that was just regular USPS. There is NO excuse for this. Like I said, shame on Miniature Aircraft for exclusively recommending TRM motors. Maybe they'd like to step up to the plate and take the responsibility for replacing TRM's modified version for a stock 231? I'll be contacting Heliproz this morning and presenting that scenario to them. Hopefully, they will concede that this matter has been handled very poorly and will agree to exchange the motor. I surely want no further dealings with Alan or TRM.
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06-21-2007, 07:21 AM | #5 (permalink) |
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Join Date: Apr 2006
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Update: Today is Thursday, June 21. Alan has now had my motor in his possession for three full weeks. As of this morning, he has not tried to contact me nor has he returned the motor. How complicated is it to make a phone call? How complicated is it to ship the motor back if you're unable to repair it? At this point I just need the motor back to remove my fan, the engagement key and washer for the starter and the Z-RC carb adapter. I'm returning it to Heliproz for a stock replacement or refund.
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06-21-2007, 07:32 AM | #6 (permalink) |
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Join Date: Apr 2006
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BTW, Will, Toxic Racing Motors is no longer in the business of modifying heli motors, at least not for Miniature Aircraft. Gee, I wonder why? MA gave him a "satisfactory" rating with them. Not exactly what I'd call a recommendation to be proud of. So, I'm obviously not the first customer to be disappointed with his business practices.
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06-21-2007, 08:33 PM | #7 (permalink) |
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Bob,I apologize for not geting back to you. I lost the letter you sent with the motor and had no other way to contact you and since I don't come on the forums much I did not think of contacting you here. With that said, I read what you wrote and you are not stating all the facts. you have not tried to contact me at all since the last time I talked to you but it seems you contacted everyone else. I work 60 hrs a week at a full time job and then I do TRM so when i said i was busy it's cause I was. Do you honestly think you are the only person I deal with in a day you have got to be F'ing kidding me I call back as soon as I can but if I spent all day on the phone I would get nothing done. You did not seem to mention that I spent time with you on the phone more than once trying to get you set up and fixed. You also failed to mention that in the letter you sent you stated if I could not fingd anything wrong with the motor you wanted another one or a stk motor and money and if I did not have new stk carb(643) don't bother sending it back because you did'nt want to have to put it back in your heli. All you can do is bash because you think
you will get your way and hurt others well guess what all you did was piss me off. I don't care about my customers? I have bent over backwards to help people who want it and are willing to learn, and 99% of the time it has been "operator" era not my engine. I told you on the phone I DON'T MAKE ENGINE, I mod the cylinder and the piston in the stage 1 that is all. I don't mod the carb, crank, cases, ignition flywheel and I don't warranty them!!!! I warranty my workmanship which I stand by 100% . The carb had nothing to do with my mods but I was going to replace it any way. the reason you did not get the motor back was the fact after running the motor I heard the metallic sound you spoke of and decided to replace the crank even thou it did not seem bad I did not want to take any chances, oh by the way free!! I ordered the cranks and was waiting for them to arrive and was hoping you would call but you didn't, instead you whined on here. Also I don't sell the engine I modified them for M.A. and for not much so basically I am paying you to run my engine at this point for nothing I have done wrong. And as for not build for M.A anymore has nothing to do with customer dissapointment you asshole it's because of the amount of motors they would have buy and the way the market has dropped it is waty to much money to sit on the shelf so check your F'ing facts.The other reason I was thinking of getting out of building heli motors is because of know it all assholes like you who ruin it for everyone with this crap you spew on the forums. And you are the first person who has ever contacted me I did not make happy so maybe take a look at yourself. After reading this I decided I don't you to run my engines so I will send you a stk motor and the difference. so send me your address and I will get one sent to you. For all the people I have dealt with in the past and future customers I am sorry for this display,this definitely does not reflect my feeling for all heli customers infact 99% of the people I deal with are awesome. I did not want to bring myself down to this level I just can't take it any more. I am still doing motors and will be happy to take care of anyone with my engines. Peace, Toxic Al |
06-22-2007, 08:26 AM | #8 (permalink) |
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Al,
Nice post. That is the problem with most of the heli pilots that use products from companies like yours. They don't realize that you actually have a real job that puts food on the table and the motor business is similar to a hobby to earn a little extra money. You work your regular job all week and then you work on the motors when you get home or have time. Most of the companies that blueprint ( modify) motors are operating the same way. Everything you said in your post above is fact. MA does not want to buy the quanity of Zenoah heli motors they would have to buy to keep them in stock. Also the gasser market has dwindled to nearly extinct. I go to large heli events all the time. It is very seldom I see a gasser being flown or even at the events. I researched Al's Toxic Motors when he started modifying motors for MA. Al has a great reputation for his service and craftmanship with Zenoah motors. He doesn't make the motors, he just makes them better than they were stock. |
06-22-2007, 12:56 PM | #9 (permalink) |
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Join Date: Apr 2006
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David, you really think Al's post is fact, huh? His profanity alone makes quite an intelligent statement, don't you think? You don't know the half of it. He wants everyone to believe he lost my phone number and address. I would suggest that that's not true. What kind of business practice is that? He would have had to lose the box I sent it in, the letter that I included which stated my phone number and address, and not to mention the many phone conversations we had before I even sent the motor to him. Maybe you too should read the above posts again. There are just too many discrepancies in Al's stories. He stated he tore the motor down and found nothing wrong internally. He also stated he didn't hear any metal sounds when he ran it. He went on to say that he couldn't get it to run the way he wanted so he changed the carburetor and it made a "tremendous improvement." He told me in our phone conversation on Thursday, June 7, 2007 that he was waiting for a ring and would be shipping the motor back to me the next day, Friday, June 8. He further stated that if there was a problem he would call me back. I never heard from him again until I phoned him today, Friday, June 22. Now he says he was waiting for a crankshaft because he heard a metal sound. When did he hear that? First he says he didn't hear any metal sound and now all of a sudden he did hear it. When I spoke to him on June 7th all he said he had left was to put a new ring in it and he'd be shipping it back the next day. He never mentioned that he in fact heard a metal sound. And why did he have to replace the ring in the first place, it was a brand new motor that he stated was broken in very well. He needs to get his stories straight. He also told me in our phone conversation today that there was nothing wrong with the carb and that it was just a tuning issue. He even claimed he hadn't called my house and yet on one occasion when he called my wife even gave him our cell number. I'm not buying the story of losing my phone number. What I do believe is that he just didn't have the decency to phone and tell me he was still waiting for parts. Now he's trying to attack me and put the blame on myself for not calling him back. All I've been doing is waiting for a motor to be returned, period. There is no reason for me to make up a story, I have nothing to gain by it. Alan, on the other hand, is trying to cover up the fact that he's dropped the ball in my case and won't admit to it. You know what they say, David, the truth always hurts. You can take Alan's side all you want, but the facts are clear in this case. I'm still waiting for a motor and Alan is still waiting for a crankshaft, a crankshaft that he never mentioned needed replacement. It's been over two weeks since I was told the motor would be shipped back. If that makes me impatient, so be it. Those are the facts.
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06-22-2007, 03:38 PM | #10 (permalink) |
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Wow, That is not what our (Al 's and mine) conversations about your motor have been about. Your story if definitely different than our conversations in the last couple of weeks. He has been working on your issue and has ordered 5 cranks on order (one for your motor) just because he does not like what he hears out of the bottom end of yours. He even asked me quite a few days ago if I would PM you or otherwise try to get in contact with you. I was very busy and did not do it so I guess you should be in my ass as well.
I was wrong, Al did not order a ring, he had a ring and "freshened" yours up while working on it. He has been waiting for the cranks to arrive. Frankly, I would not be putting a crank in you motor (he did nothing to the bottom end when modifying-rememeber?), but hey, Al has worked that way as long as I have known him. I told him to just send it back to you since there was nothing wrong with his workmanship to begin with considering your attitude. He had no obligation to do squat with your carb or anything that was not in the scope of his modifications. I know for a fact however, that Al eats stuff to make obstinate people happy. Our last conversation last night was of him doing the same thing for your motor. If it had been me, you would have gotten the motor back within 2-3 days of the onset of your harassment and abuse (the mods and work intact as required), but I guess Al is still not as sick of folks like you as I am and wants you to have a good motor. I too have another job that pays the bills and days are too full and too short to put up with the likes of this. When folks ask me why i am idle in the hobby now I can add this to the reasons. I have had about enough of it, including trying to help idiots. This is why you don't see or hear much from me!!!!!!! Later, BIGRCR-John Garst
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BIGRCR- John Garst Toxic Racing Motors IRCHA #1716 |
06-22-2007, 05:03 PM | #11 (permalink) |
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You know, John, you and Al should get your stories straight. You're saying "I was wrong, Al did not order a ring, he had a ring" and yet Al's exact statement to me on Thursday, June 7th was that "I'm waiting for a new ring, it should be here today (Thursday, June 7), and I'll be shipping it back to you tomorrow (Friday, June 8th)". When in fact the truth of the matter is that he was waiting for a crankshaft all along and had no intention of calling me back. I waited nine days for the motor to be shipped back before putting my concerns in writing. And I understand completely what modifications were done to the motor and that Al is not responsible for faulty carburetors, crankshafts or anything else, but Heliproz is the one that said the motor had to go back to him for repairs so that's what I did. All I wanted was the motor to be returned when it was promised or a phone call stating the reasons for the delay. But no, instead someone is making up stories about rings and crankshafts being ordered and phone numbers being mysteriously lost. Bull. Al is obviously your friend and so you're trying to stick up for him. Fine. I've now caught you both in stories that don't match so your credibility is also in question. You've implied that I'm an idiot. You and Al are both pretty good at name-calling and I would suggest that that's a childish response for being caught red-handed with your hands in the cookie jar. I would further suggest that the idiots are the two of you for not getting your stories straight. Enough said. Life is too short to continue trying to explain right from wrong to the likes of the two of you. Talk about beating a dead horse.
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06-22-2007, 05:29 PM | #12 (permalink) |
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Al,
I will suggest just boxing the motor up and shipping it back. I would not worry about trying to put it together or get it running again. It is quiet obvious now that no matter what you do it is not going to be satisfactory. Seems the customer just wants the motor back no matter what shape it is in. I would think Heliproz should be considered at fault also for even suggestting the customer to send the motor back to TRM since TRM is the company that blueprinted the motor. David |
06-22-2007, 06:09 PM | #13 (permalink) |
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Nope, Heliproz is caught up in this crap too and Al is going to make sure they don't suffer.
Al is sending him a motor ASAP as he wants in New condition. Yes, Bobo. Al and I are partners per say..And yes, it worked, we got you and we have accomplished what we devised to do....keep you from flying untill your season is through... BIGRCR
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BIGRCR- John Garst Toxic Racing Motors IRCHA #1716 |
06-22-2007, 09:29 PM | #14 (permalink) |
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Yes guys you got me I am a liar, this whole thing was a conspiracy to keep bob from flying this season. David Will and John thanks for the back up, I appreciate it especially since you didn't have to. just let you all know I am sending him a new stk motor and the difference he paid Heliproz and sending him down the rode never to return. Peace, Toxic Al
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06-29-2007, 07:19 AM | #15 (permalink) |
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UPDATE: Today is Friday, 6/29/07, another week has gone by and still no motor. No surprise, however. This is exactly what I expected would happen. Seeing as how you cannot deliver a motor, repaired or otherwise, and obviously have no intention of ever returning my original motor and parts, I'll be requesting Heliproz refund the entire amount of the motor ($449.99). I'll further be requesting Heliproz reimburse me for the fan which is in your possession ($65.00) and my Z-RC carb adaptor ($35.00). Heliproz sold me the motor, said it had to go back to you for repair, maybe they'll have better luck trying to collect from you.
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06-29-2007, 07:33 AM | #16 (permalink) |
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I sent you a motor on monday from daves motors and will get you the trcking # also I sent you on monday a priorty envelope with a check and the parts you requested. I did what you wanted which i did not have to do at all so yell at the post office not me, I also got delivery conformation on the package I sent you #0480 5401 4370 4105 2363. If you will check this # you will when it left. As I said i don't lie and i took care of it so yell at the post office not me. I will expecting the rest of the parts to this motor when you get your new one.
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06-29-2007, 07:57 AM | #17 (permalink) |
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Label/Receipt Number: 0480 5401 4370 4105 2363
Status: Acceptance The U.S. Postal Service has received electronic notification from our Automated Postal Center (APC) in OVIEDO, FL 32765 on June 25, 2007 to expect your shipment for mailing. The above means the letter/package is in the system and is being shipped. It may not show delivery status till a couple of days after it is delivered. At least that is my experience with delivery confirmation with the USPS. Al you might as well let it go. Nothing you do is going to satisfy this guy. David |
06-29-2007, 02:48 PM | #18 (permalink) |
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I called my distibutor and the package was shipped the 26th from there to you. they apologized that they did not get out on Monday because you have a P.O box and ups does not ship to P.O. boxes, they had to send some one to the post office to send it prioritymail. And look here is the tracking #910114800860028181492. that is the coformation ID #.Now go to the post office and complain to them.
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