Problem with my 500 any ideas?

[Finless]

Originally Posted by OICU812

Glad you figured it out. A freind was going through same grief with a Spektrum 6200, however it was not in the end the receiver. It was static from the belt and dry weather combintation, making it shut down momentarily. A quick coating of Graphit 33 on the belt, no issues now.

Interesting... I was having this discussion with Align today. If in fact this is true all that is needed to PROVE IT is to ground the boom to the frame. At the servo clamp scrape off some paint and put a wire from the boom to the mainframe and test with a ohm meter that the boom is electrically connected to the frame.

I would LOVE to get to the bottom of this and it's NOT just a Trex500 problem! If belt static is the issue we need to all work together to both discover it and 2, find a fix! I don't believe graphite 33 is the answer!

Bob

[Pinecone]

It would also work to make sure the electrical path from each belt pulley is intact. Van de Graaf generators work by making different potentials at each end, so if you connect them, no build up. There is some info on this on some RC forum.

Personally I would connect the two pulleys electrically and then connect to the main frame/battery negative to sink all potential static and noise sources.

[famus]

I had a problem on my Viper 70 with the tail kicking in violently after about one minute into the flight. Then it would do this at regular intervals. The final cure was grounding the boom and belt to the motor plate. The problem instantly disappeared.

When you think about it, with a rubber belt and plastic insulating the boom/frame from the belt, it is amazing how come this problem is not as frequent !

My rule now is to always common ground the boom and belt.
I should get my 500 next week so it will surely undergo the same treatment.

[OICU812]

Originally Posted by Finless

Interesting... I was having this discussion with Align today. If in fact this is true all that is needed to PROVE IT is to ground the boom to the frame. At the servo clamp scrape off some paint and put a wire from the boom to the mainframe and test with a ohm meter that the boom is electrically connected to the frame.

I would LOVE to get to the bottom of this and it's NOT just a Trex500 problem! If belt static is the issue we need to all work together to both discover it and 2, find a fix! I don't believe graphite 33 is the answer!

Bob

I was not saying it was the final answer Bob, I was only saying it did cure the issue, "for the moment". Yes I agree the real fix may be to ground it or something.....

[lovespicyfood]

Originally Posted by Finless

Interesting... I was having this discussion with Align today. If in fact this is true all that is needed to PROVE IT is to ground the boom to the frame. At the servo clamp scrape off some paint and put a wire from the boom to the mainframe and test with a ohm meter that the boom is electrically connected to the frame.

I would LOVE to get to the bottom of this and it's NOT just a Trex500 problem! If belt static is the issue we need to all work together to both discover it and 2, find a fix! I don't believe graphite 33 is the answer!

Bob

Bob,

It does seem that ESD is a problem with some of the Spektrum equipment. I hope this is okay linking to another website, if not, feel free to delete. I think you might find it very interesting!

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=743294

JPC even sent his entire setup (spektrumized 9303) to Horizon to replicate the issues. Bottom line, they sent it back and said it was indeed ESD. Unfortunately, they didn't offer a solution!

My DX6 transmitter issue where ESD was causing the transmitter to lock-up!
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=626655

This issue hits home to me, because I just now had my first ESD lockout of my AR6100 in my belt converted HB FP this morning!

Bob, thanks for all the help you give the heli community!

Regards,
Pete

[JustPlaneChris]

Originally Posted by lovespicyfood

JPC even sent his entire setup (spektrumized 9303) to Horizon to replicate the issues. Bottom line, they sent it back and said it was indeed ESD. Unfortunately, they didn't offer a solution!

Just a quick clarification: The TX I was using (and what was sent in for testing) was the LP5DSM (Blade CX2 TX). However, the symptoms were (and are) identical even using my 9303 with DSM2 module.

The totally bizarre thing is that my Honey Bee King V2 has had ZERO shutdowns using the same receiver, mounted in basically the same location. I'm also flying a Dragonus now with an AR6100E and haven't had any issues. Clearly the ability to generate a shutdown ESD spike requires just the right circumstances and design. But let me tell you, when it happens it ain't no fun.

-Chris

[Pinecone]

Yes, and with the Spektrum, the antenna tips are much closer to our big static generator (tail belt).

The guy on RCG, if it is the thread I remember, was seeing sprks jumping to his antenna tips and he wondered why the Rx would reset.

[mk1spitfire]

Full size aircraft have wires attached to the airframe to discharge static.

Is it only belt driven helis and not direct drive that are having this problem?

[Finless]

Remember that on a Trex SE or other helis that have metal bearing blocks the tail assembly can be grounded already. On the 600 and 500 the tail drive is all plastic thus there is no way the tail assembly is going to have an electrical connection to the frames. Before the SE came out we use to see many people talk about static build up and arching from the tail assembly to the frames. I even saw a video once of a guy videoing a 450 spun up in the dark and you could see the arching. Later when the SE came out with metal blocks these issues seemed to disappear and people stopped talking about it!

I think I am going to ground my boom!

Bob

[MAXATTA1]

I flew my new ar7000 receiver that I exchanged at the lhs. 3 batteries and no problems so at least in my case it must have been just a bad receiver. Thanks for all the help.

[invertsick]

Originally Posted by Finless

Remember that on a Trex SE or other helis that have metal bearing blocks the tail assembly can be grounded already. On the 600 and 500 the tail drive is all plastic thus there is no way the tail assembly is going to have an electrical connection to the frames. Before the SE came out we use to see many people talk about static build up and arching from the tail assembly to the frames. I even saw a video once of a guy videoing a 450 spun up in the dark and you could see the arching. Later when the SE came out with metal blocks these issues seemed to disappear and people stopped talking about it!

I think I am going to ground my boom!

Bob

Bob ,

Can you show us a pic of how to ground the boom?
I will fly my 500 next monday when i receive the blades with ar7000 hope will not face such problems.

serge

[lonelasso]

Originally Posted by invertsick

Bob ,

Can you show us a pic of how to ground the boom?
I will fly my 500 next monday when i receive the blades with ar7000 hope will not face such problems.

serge

I researched this when JPC was looking for a solution and if you search google for van de graf generator...you'll find that if you make your own (generator), it specifically says DO NOT USE WD-40 on the belt. So...simple answer...in dry, cold winter conditions, squirt it on the belt Or....ground the boom...whichever is more convenient

[HeliBurns]

Bob, Align is coming out with a metal tailcase, as you showed in the trade show...

I managed to order a couple as well as some metal control levers from some hobby distributor in Taiwan.

Let's see if that upgrade will quiet things down, so to speak. With a metal tail case, I think a ground strap from a side frame bolt to the neg. on your ESC connector to the LiPo will be sufficient grounding, as the tail boom at the tail case, through the boom block, through the side frame acts like a small valued resistor....the static potential, which can be very high voltage is a very small current when discharged....which means the voltage drop through the "resistor" majorly minimizes any potential difference between the frame, which encompasses the RX to a certain extent, and the neg. of the LiPo....

Anyway, GTB (ground the boom), so you don't TTP (taco that pack).....

[Trex mad1]

Ive ordered the metal tail box and mixing levers also, from the same site
Just need the see saw to complete the head. Brought there matal bearing block aswell. Ive emailed about the seesaw and tail rotor grips, il post if i hera anything

[rcboosted]

Originally Posted by invertsick

Bob ,

Can you show us a pic of how to ground the boom?
I will fly my 500 next monday when i receive the blades with ar7000 hope will not face such problems.

serge

I second that. A pic would be nice. After over a year of trouble-free flights on my 450 SE using DX7 and AR6100, I had a shutdown in flight 3 weeks ago. I lost all power and control and it just crashed. I was hovering when it happened, 30 sec. after power up. I ragained control of it after about 10 sec after the initial lock out. I haven't flown it since due to weather and other misc stuff so I don't know if it was static or the Rx. But eliminating static as one of the possibility would be nice.

[lovespicyfood]

Originally Posted by rcboosted

I second that. A pic would be nice. After over a year of trouble-free flights on my 450 SE using DX7 and AR6100, I had a shutdown in flight 3 weeks ago. I lost all power and control and it just crashed. I was hovering when it happened, 30 sec. after power up. I ragained control of it after about 10 sec after the initial lock out. I haven't flown it since due to weather and other misc stuff so I don't know if it was static or the Rx. But eliminating static as one of the possibility would be nice.

That's seems to be what happens. Everything works perfectly and then one day, you experience a shutdown. NOT FUN!

Pete

[lonelasso]

Originally Posted by lovespicyfood

That's seems to be what happens. Everything works perfectly and then one day, you experience a shutdown. NOT FUN!

Pete

If you want to save a few $$$s, replace the tail pulley with a CNC pulley. I'll bet that will stop static build-up !
DOH.....my bad ! Seems that's stock already :o

[JustPlaneChris]

IMO, you still should ground the tailboom to the negative lead of the ESC to be certain you discharge the static. Even if the receiver doesn't shut down, it can cause other problems. During cool dry weather I was getting random spasms of the tail in my Century Swift (AR7000 + JR 500T gyro) until I grounded the boom to the negative lead of the ESC. This was no doubt ESD hitting the gyro (mounted right above the tailboom of course). I'm just glad the AR7000 seems more resistant to ESD than the AR6100!

-Chris

[rcboosted]

Originally Posted by JustPlaneChris

IMO, you still should ground the tailboom to the negative lead of the ESC to be certain you discharge the static

Agreed, pics would be nice.

[OICU812]

If you are going to put anything on your belt to avoid static please do not let it be WD40 crap, use a grahit 33 or carbon spray or carbon pencil and simply apply it on easily and evenly. No mess, will not wreck belt either and eliminates all static chances.