check out this video (brown out problem?) IT IS STATIC!

[Jason Bell]

Originally Posted by Justin911

ok thats good to know. i am gonna mount my RX on the bottom tray tomorrow and give it a shot... I have my gyro mounted on the boom block for now and I may leave it there. we'll see

Jason. where would you put that metal tray?

Its the metal plate that comes with the 611 and spartan. Gryo->tape->plate->tape->Heli.

[ChasHeliCop]

Originally Posted by Justin911

ok thats good to know. i am gonna mount my RX on the bottom tray tomorrow and give it a shot... I have my gyro mounted on the boom block for now and I may leave it there. we'll see

Jason. where would you put that metal tray?

Hey Justin,

Look at the first vid again, do you think it's possible to get feed back thru the gyro to the Rx ? Also, something I forgot to mention, the screws holding the gyro together are on the bottom where it mounts. The boom block is statically charged, that's why i relocated it.

[Justin911]

ahh damn... something the 401 doesn't come with!!! GREAT

[Jason Bell]

Originally Posted by Justin911

ahh damn... something the 401 doesn't come with!!! GREAT

Hehe yea..

AND remember those random tail wags? I think we found a problemo.

[Justin911]

Originally Posted by ChasHeliCop

Hey Justin,

Look at the first vid again, do you think it's possible to get feed back thru the gyro to the Rx ? Also, something I forgot to mention, the screws holding the gyro together are on the bottom where it mounts. The boom block is statically charged, that's why i relocated it.

that is an excellent point.. I didn't even think of that until you mentioned it. so maybe I will relocate it also!

Originally Posted by torkboy

Hehe yea..

AND remember those random tail wags? I think we found a problemo.

YEA JASON! I think so

[ChasHeliCop]

Ok guys, I will do those other tests in the morning, plus one other idea I had. Have a good night.

[Justin911]

awesome that sounds good.. what other tests are you going to do? I look forward to them

[motomanmel]

Guys, I had a problem myself today with a lock out.
I had just built the 500 and set it up perfectly. Today I went to fly it for the first time @ Arbor park and 3 min in the Air My servos went to full Neg Pitch and the Heli went DOWN...

I have the upgraded Aluminum Tail and a 6200 receiver. It just happens that Align is only 5 min form Arbor so we took the heli to Align and Talk to Andy (He is supper nice). He said I would have better luck with the 7000 Receiver and be sure to mount it at the bottom try and spry the Belt with Silicone Spray. This should fix the problem.
But Now I don't feel like taking it out until we find the problem.

Its funny, Before I built the 500 I read these posts and thought all you guys were doing something wrong.. Now I take all my thoughts back and Want to help with the issue.

I design Motorcycle Parts and my Specialty is Plastic Injection. I would say If the belt was made with a non conductive material like a silicone rubber I don't think we would have a problem. I can try taking a Mavrikk Belt for a Raptor and putting it into a T-rex 500 and see what happens with static. I will have to change the Gears But maybe Kevin can Help me machine a tail gear for it.

Lets try it...

[Justin911]

I say GO FOR IT!!! what ever helps... the TT will be huge when it comes out..

[motomanmel]

Justin, How many people do you know that had this problem with a AR7000?

[Justin911]

on the 7000.. None personally. My buddy (torkboy) had a lockout with his 6200... now I am gonna try a 9000 tomorrow because my buddy is gonna loan it to me for a while until 7000 are in stock at my shop and I will see how that works out.

[motomanmel]

Justin, What about your r770 PCM receiver, did you have a problem with that?

[cbdane]

Originally Posted by ChasHeliCop

Look at the first vid again, do you think it's possible to get feed back thru the gyro to the Rx ? Also, something I forgot to mention, the screws holding the gyro together are on the bottom where it mounts. The boom block is statically charged, that's why i relocated it.

Don't forget that the Futaba gyros (e.g. the 401) have electrically conductive plastic cases to increase resistance to interference (induced current) from magnetic fields (electric motors, high current wiring, etc.). The manuals warn against letting the plastic case come into contact with bare wiring to avoid shorts. This would work against you when trying to isolate against static discharge. The gyro case could serve as quite a large bare collector, carrying discharge spikes back to the receiver.

Just for grins, stick your two DMM probes (reading ohms) onto two different spots on the 401 case to see what I mean.

I hope that this is helpful.

[Justin911]

Originally Posted by motomanmel

Justin, What about your r770 PCM receiver, did you have a problem with that?

with the R770, I never had a single problem... I only had 7 flights on my heli, but when it flew, it was no problems at all... I just got my x9303 and sold my xp9303 so I will most likely find out very shortly...

Originally Posted by cbdane

Don't forget that the Futaba gyros (e.g. the 401) have electrically conductive plastic cases to increase resistance to interference (induced current) from magnetic fields (electric motors, high current wiring, etc.). The manuals warn against letting the plastic case come into contact with bare wiring to avoid shorts. This would work against you when trying to isolate against static discharge. The gyro case could serve as quite a large bare collector, carrying discharge spikes back to the receiver.

Just for grins, stick your two DMM probes (reading ohms) onto two different spots on the 401 case to see what I mean.

I hope that this is helpful.

I think that is one of the tests he will do tomorrow.. he was planning on doign more but wasn't sure what they were yet.

[OICU812]

Graphit33 solves it all, spray onto rag, wipe on belt, done.

[HELINHAWAII]

You guys see this...?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3XNSfrUg-M4

What an (insert expletive)! He just won't give up. If he thinks these things you guys are doing is wrong, why doesn't he just move on and forget about us?

[rdlohr]

Great vids. You really appear to be on to something. This clearly shows a very different ESD pattern around the receiver area of the 500 vs. the receiver area of the 450. It seems the 450 has one major ESD source, the gears. It appears the 500 has two, the gears and the tail boom.

The 500 has ESD all around the area we place the receiver in. I would assume that any wires or electronics in the ESD zones could pick up that noise.

I assume there are two ways protect your electronics from the ESD.
1) Remove the sources of the ESD
2) Physically isolate your electronics from it

For option 1, removing the sources:
Source 1: The tail
We have already thought of many parts of this. Grounding pulleys front and back, lubing belts, different belt material, all contribute to this. Not sure how grounding the ESC fits in but I suspect that helps too.

Source 2: The Gears
This one is new to me. I hadn't realized this was a major source of ESD. I would like to see us ground the bearings of the main gear, try different materials, etc to try to minimize this ESD.

Whats nice is that now that we have a way to actually see where the ESD is coming from, we can try experiments and prove that we can systematically limit it.

For option 2, Physically isolate your electronics from it
I think we have been doing this on the 450 for years. We have always said it was best practice to have your receiver components as far away from your motor components as possible which lead us to move receiver parts to the back. This also moved us further from the gears. Also, minimizing wire lengths helps with less pickup area.

For the 500, since there are two ESD sources, its pretty darn hard to get the receiver electronics including the gyro and servo wires away from both sources. Moving everything toward the back and down seems to make sense. I think we will have to limit the ESD by the steps in option 1 then put the electronics in the safest spot we end up with.

Great job ChasHeliCop with the videos and the rest of you guys that have given us additional information on this! This was definite headway in my mind! Can't wait to hear Fireup and Finless input on this!

Rick

[rdlohr]

Originally Posted by OICU812

Graphit33 solves it all, spray onto rag, wipe on belt, done.

Thanks Shawn. Can you post a good link to an on-line source to buy this?

I would like to see a vid showing this has removed the ESD.

Rick

[cmb2003svt]

Rick,
Post #10 & 12

https://www.helifreak.com/showthread...raphite&page=2

[rdlohr]

Originally Posted by cmb2003svt

Rick,
Post #10 & 12

https://www.helifreak.com/showthread...raphite&page=2

Thanks, repeated here from Shawn's earlier post:

http://www.loeneninstruments.com/index.php?catid=839

http://www.elfa.se/elfa-bin/setpage....&dok=12257.htm


http://www.bmm-electronics.com/Produ...roduct_ID=3308

I would like to see the vid after this stuff is aaplied. It makes sense that this conductive stuff would keep a charge from building up.

Rick