ALL Protos Flybarless Owners; CHECK your swashplate ball!!

[M52 POWER!]

I have been chasing a nasty tail oscillation for WEEKS on my protos. I have replaced tail shafts, tail bearings, tail slider, and blades, main shafts and main bearings etc but the problem was still present. Spent countless hours disassembling, aligning, balancing and removing as much possible friction from the entire powertrain. I've even tried adding the mikado logo thrust bearings solution thinking the radial bearings in the tail grips were binding at high RPM centrifugal loads.

A video of the tail issue:

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PLf9Ki7PVpo[/ame]

I've been talking with mikado v-bar support thinking it was a v-bar issue but it was not. The real problem was surprising but makes complete sense now! The swashplate ball is off-center causing a horrible oscillation to travel down the main shaft, to the main frame, then down the tail boom to the tail where the tail fin amplifies it. This vibration/oscillation confuses the v-bar 's sensor and shows as a slight wobble!

A video and picture of the off-center swash ball's effect on the entire swashplate (credits rotorWIZZ):

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M_az2ZqtJMc&feature=player_embedded[/ame]



Now keep in mind the swashplate is a decent size and weight piece of metal for the heli, having it shimmy around even less than a millimeter at ~2600rpm + is NOT good.

Furthermore it appears to be somewhat common just by reading through threads on helifreak. There is a high abundance of protos owners in the mikado v-bar forum with vibration induced v-bar problems. Several have had to do band-aid fixes or just live with it.

Swashplate problem
moderate vibe coming from the shaft or swash
Protos + Vbar = not happy

It is a bigger problem on V-bar protos since it effects the 3 axis gyro sensors quite easily but still would be worth checking on flybarred protos'.

Everybody CHECK YOUR SWASH BALL!

Hopefully MSH fixes the problem on future kits.

[alexf1852]

I have had 2 or 3 swashes that have had this problem. But none of them were as bad as in that video.

Have you tried a new swashplate yet to see if that solves your tail wag problem?

[ola.c]

Are there any 3rd party upgrade swashplate available for the P500

[Funky242]

Isn't this the same problem as described in this thread :

https://www.helifreak.com/showthread...=255743&page=4

?

[whisperdancer]

If you know there are threads about this, why creating a new one!?!?!?
I'm sorry but for me, and since you arrived, you are constantly bashing on MSH. This time with a big font.

I understand the frustration, and even I have the same problem. I've replaced one and it was no better than the previous one...
Even in my newest protos the swash wobbles a little.

[M52 POWER!]

Originally Posted by whisperdancer

If you know there are threads about this, why creating a new one!?!?!?
I'm sorry but for me, and since you arrived, you are constantly bashing on MSH. This time with a big font.

I understand the frustration, and even I have the same problem. I've replaced one and it was no better than the previous one...
Even in my newest protos the swash wobbles a little.

Simply put, parts quality problems like this are unacceptable for this helicopter. I don't mean to bash MSH but they seem to not really care. This has been a issue for a while and it still has not been addressed. If it were mikado or even align they'd fix the problem and replace all the defective swashes. I know, you're going to say then get a logo then! Well, maybe if I knew all these little problems before I bought it that would be the case.

I like this helicopter a lot, I really do but it is SO frustrating to have issues like these. Spending countless hours and money chasing down parts defects is not my idea of acceptable, do you? It's like its 95% a great helicopter, but then has silly little flaws like this.... The entire swash plate vibrates because they can't center the ball.... These are simple ABC's of helicopters.

I REFUSE to have my $800+ Italian helicopter vibrate itself to confusion, especially from a known parts defect!

[JustPlaneChris]

Originally Posted by M52 POWER!

If it were mikado or even align they'd fix the problem and replace all the defective swashes.

Oh wow, I'm still wiping tears of laughter from my eyes. Did you really say that "Align would fix the problem and replace all the defective swashes"??? LOL! Oh man, that's hilarious. More likely they would remain silent and release "swash V2" as a nice shiny upgrade.

I'm quite sure MSH will address this issue, but it may take some time. They aren't a giant company with unlimited resources, after all.

[M52 POWER!]

Originally Posted by JustPlaneChris

Oh wow, I'm still wiping tears of laughter from my eyes. Did you really say that "Align would fix the problem and replace all the defective swashes"??? LOL! Oh man, that's hilarious. More likely they would remain silent and release "swash V2" as a nice shiny upgrade.

I'm quite sure MSH will address this issue, but it may take some time. They aren't a giant company with unlimited resources, after all.

Haha yea. Actually 2 times align has sent me new parts @ no charge...

[aliosha323]

I also have that same problem But I'll live with it because nothing in life is perfect, you just get it as close to perfect as you can

My out-of-round swash plate vibrated my servo arm off my heli, and caused a pretty interesting un-commanded back flip... 20sec into my third flight since i finished building her. But you don't hear me complaining. I just went out and bought another swash....

I still love this heli aside from its flaws. stick with it.

Hope you get it all sorted out

Allen

[terrabit]

How is it EVER okay to ignore a problem? Uh, f**k that! The Protos tail sucks ass too. Don't get me wrong, I like my Protos. Criticism for the sake of criticism is bullshit. But when it helps to make a good company better, it is VALUABLE END USER FEEDBACK. What's-his-face (no disrespect intended) doesn't make helis to pass the time. He makes them for us - his customers. Readily accepting flaws in his product doesn't help him, us or anyone else. In my mind, when someone finds a problem they are OBLIGATED to air it out. THAT is how good products become great products.

M52, you done right by me.

Okay, off my soapbox!

[signal7]

Wouldn't this wobble straight from the swashplate also put undue strain on the servos?

I tested mine last night and there's a slight vibration at full throttle, but no visible wobble. In testing last night I found my blades were way out of balance, even though it has been flying great (V-Bar FBL). If it flew that well with the blades that far out of balance, I'm not going to fret about the swash unless it visibly wobbles like the video.

[FlyBarlesss]

Stuff like that MUST be addressed and is totally unacceptable for something like a heli with as much money as a lot of people have invested in them, come on MSH MAKE THIS RIGHT !!!

[M52 POWER!]

Readyheli stepped up to the plate and sent a new swash out to me. I'm happy to report that the new one has zero runout issues and spins true! Even better the mikado V-bar now gets a vibration free reading and the tail wag is gone!

MSH has yet to respond to any of the emails I've sent them over the past few weeks.

[Blueabyss]

That was great that Readyheli helped him out but sort sucks for them.. I think If I were running Readyheli I would call up MSH and tell them fix the effin problem or we are going to quit selling your effin heli...lol..


Chris

[kgfly]

Glad you got it fixed. I have one of the earliest Protos and did not suffer this same problem. I agree that if it is a common problem there should be a prompt response from MSH acknowledging the issue and explaining how and when it will be fixed. We only have one side of the story here but it does seem disappointing that MSH have not responded to your emails.

[Czech-Dave]

I experienced the same problem + the play between the inner and outer ring increased dramaticaly after about 60 flights. My solution was using the swash from my crashed & destroyed Hirobo Lepton. Since then no more vib-issues, no play.
David

[trickybit]

Excellent solution. I shall go right out and destroy a Lepton.

[alexf1852]

Those lepton swashplates, if you can find one, are around $65. But look like much better quality.

[vicrc]

The HDX500 is a copy of the Lepton. Don't know if it will work but looks similar ~$25

[kgfly]

Did you find an HDX500 swashplate in stock anywhere (link please)? I was curious but couldn't find one.